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By iamjacksplants
Posts:  590
Joined:  Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:13 am
#241277
Hello everyone,

I'm expecting a package today (never gets old huh?)! It should have U. Alpina and G. Hispidula in it. I have made up a couple modified "Slack pots" with some LFS, a little sandy peat mix, and some live LFS poking through the sandy peat mix. Overkill? I've been doing a lot of reading, mostly Barry Rice, and much of what I've read so far indicates that both of these can be grown in just sandy peat, or other similar "coarse" mixes, however, they don't seem to "prefer" those mixes and almost never flower, especially the Ginlisea. Alpina can be a little more forgiving...



Anyway, I was hoping there were some of you more experienced growers that might have some of these in cultivation, and hopefully can tell me a little bit about the soil you use, growing conditions; light type, humidity, temps, photoperiod, dormancy etc. Also would like to know if anyone here has had success getting these guys to flower.



Thanks so much everyone,

Cheers,

-@.
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By SerMuncherIV
Posts:  1205
Joined:  Sun May 31, 2015 5:59 pm
#241297
U. alpina prefers live Sphagnum as a media, while terrestrial Genlisea can be treated like a terrestrial tropical Utricularia. I'm more concerned about how you're going to get the correct temperatures for the U. alpina - it's a highland plant can expects temperatures identical to those you would give HL Nepenthes and Heliamphora. It needs a significant nighttime drop in temperature to do well, and it doesn't like to be sopping wet in 100% humidity, so opening up that bag a little might help. Why not go for some of the more forgiving highland-type carnivores to get some experience first?
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By iamjacksplants
Posts:  590
Joined:  Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:13 am
#241314
Hey SerMuncherIV,
Thanks for your reply. It's always a pleasure to read your posts. You have a seemingly endless knowledge base, so I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

I have absolutely zero knowledge of any of the requirements for Nepenthes, highland or lowland. Primarily because my grow area is WAY to small for any of the plants I've seen from these groups. So, if you wouldn't mind elaborating as far as which conditions I should try to mimic for the Alpina, that would be fantastic and greatly appreciated.

The bags are only there to help the live moss I took from a Ziploc next to a window they've been growing rather well in acclimate to what I can only assume is a much lower humidity level in my "terrarium" (74-79% most of the time) as I'm certain the humidity in the bag I took them from was at or approaching 100%. I set these up with the moss only a few days ago in anticipation of my plants arrival today (still not here yet). I've been cutting bits of the bag off twice a day since. In the morning and again at night. I will most likely remove them entirely as soon as I pot them with the plants I'm waiting on.

My temps have never exceeded 84* and are most consistently 81*. Evening drops are only to the mid to low 70's. Yesterday high low was 82/75. My instrument only logs 24 hours.

Lastly, I would have waited until I had a better picture of what I would need to provide, however at the time of the order, I was under the impression that the requirements were very similar to what I'm currently providing. I understand now that information was highly inaccurate, however the plants have been paid and shipped and will be here (hopefully) within an hour or two.

So...any information you could provide would be super awesome! I don't wanna kill these guys. These were actually the very first CP's I wanted after I got my VFT's, but I couldn't find them live, only seed, til last week.

Thanks again SerMuncherIV.
Cheers,
-@.
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By SerMuncherIV
Posts:  1205
Joined:  Sun May 31, 2015 5:59 pm
#241315
The G. hispidula should be fine, just treat it like your U. sandersonii and it should do decently. As for the U. alpina, it will generally like day temperatures in the 70-80F range, with nights 50-60F (ie, the standard highlander). The day temperatures can be a little higher, as long as the nights are cool enough. 80% humidity is your grow area is good, just keep in mind that epiphytic Utrics like U. alpina don't like to be soaking wet; many people keep them in live Sphagnum in hanging net pots and water them by heavy misting instead of top watering.
Last edited by SerMuncherIV on Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By iamjacksplants
Posts:  590
Joined:  Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:13 am
#241319
Awesome SerMuncherIV! I'm a little embarrassed to admit I don't have U. Bisquamata in my (VERY limited) collection yet. But I will look up some care sheets on it and see how it matches the information I already have on the Ginlisea.

Another question for you though:
I have VFT's, U. Sandersonii, two Pings (Moranensis & Emarginata), and a D. Tokaiensis... Will creating a little more substantial evening temperature drop to accommodate the Alpina adversely affect these other plants in the grow area?

Thanks again for all your time and info.
Cheers,
-@.
By SerMuncherIV
Posts:  1205
Joined:  Sun May 31, 2015 5:59 pm
#241325
Oops, I meant your U. sandersonii, I accidentally swap the two sometimes because they're very prolific and can be grown identically....

For the temperature drop, I don't think it will seriously harm your other plants, but it probably will slow them down (can someone speak for the Pinguicula? I'm not good with those...) There's a reason people don't keep most of their traditional subtropical Drosera in the HL Nepenthes house (except for oddities like D. regia and the Brazilian highland species) if they have the room to spare. Down to 60F each night shouldn't cause issues, but 50F might.
By iamjacksplants
Posts:  590
Joined:  Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:13 am
#241347
Thanks so much SerMuncherIV!

So, the plants arrived! The was even a bonus U. Remiformis (?)!

So everyone is nestled happily (I hope) in live LFS in a modified "slack pot" type arrangement. I put them in net pots in clear containers so I can monitor water level. I know now that none of these guys like "wet feet", so my hope is that the little bits of LFS dangling just into the surface of the water will draw it up a little bit into the media, without any actual media being saturated (hopefully) or in contact with the "water table". Also, with the Ginlisea it serves a double purpose as I've found that they can sometimes be "coaxed" into building their traps into the water as opposed to just the substrate as with most terrestrial and emergent Utricularia [I know Ginlisea is a completely separate species and NOT Utricularia, but their traps are similar] . So maybe I'll get lucky and see some stolons exploring their way out of the bottom of the net pot.

I also added a little bit of a coarse sandy peat in between the the LFS dangling through the bottom of the net pot and the live LFS on the top layer. All of the traps and bladders and such on all three plants go no further down in the pot than the mid point of the sandy peat. Hopefully this will satisfy their collective dislike for "wet feet". :P

Thanks for all the info SerMuncherIV! I would also be interested in your feedback on the potting method I've described. In the event you've nothing better to do of course. :P

Thanks again.
Cheers,
-@.
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By Anymal911
Posts:  994
Joined:  Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:14 pm
#241351
Glad to hear your plants arrived healthy! I would have used yarn instead of moss for water absortion. It is much less prone to decompostition and does the same thing. Just use a thin knitting hook to run it from the top of the medium through the bottom of the pot and into the water. Use only 100% cotton yarn (though there is another type that lasts longer but is mkre prone to fungus, though I cannot remember what it is...). Moss may cause you to repot or modify your setup sooner than you expected. Be careful with fungus and mold though. Your pot and the yarn are going to be very moist or wet, which makes them more prone to infection than your other plants. If you need to replace the length of yarn for any reason (I would use at least three per pot) just pull it out the bottom and run another one through the pot. I am not an expert on these plants, so do what you think is best.
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By iamjacksplants
Posts:  590
Joined:  Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:13 am
#241354
Hey Anymal911,
That's friggin BRILLIANT! Hahahahahaha. Awesome. This is definitely a work in progress, so I'm sure I'll be changing some things. The first thing that comes to mind is drilling some holes in the jars at the top for ventilation. Supposedly, another reason to use LFS is it's a "natural" pathway for the micro organisms that these guys trap and eat. I also did not rinse the LFS this time as these organisms are said to lay dormant in the LFS and when moistened can provide food for them. Don't know how true that is, but it sounded reasonable to me, so... that's the reasoning behind that. Thanks for the great idea Anymal911.

Cheers,
-@.
By SerMuncherIV
Posts:  1205
Joined:  Sun May 31, 2015 5:59 pm
#241361
Any clue what form of the U. reniformis you have? There are two cultivars in cultivation: U. reniformis 'Big Sister' and U. reniformis 'Enfant Terrible'. Both are large (larger than your setup, at least), and while the former is more difficult than the latter, it's also more impressive. These guys are also epiphytic highlanders like U. alpina; they need the nightly temperature drop, high humidity, and appreciate a light, airy mix. A fair warning, they're not the easiest Utrics and they require precise conditions to grow, let alone flower.

Your setup right now might be a bit too wet - if you let the Sphagnum dangle into the water, you might as well soak the whole pot, since it's never going to dry out. A good situation for the two Utricularia is net pots with 100% live Sphagnum not sitting in water. The Genlisea should be fine with your setup.
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By iamjacksplants
Posts:  590
Joined:  Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:13 am
#241379
Thank you thank you thank you SerMuncherIV!

It's "Effant Terrible".

I think you're probably right about the little bits hanging in the water. I just pulled it out, and though I only had the tips (about 1 cm) in the water it dripped like a string mop that hadn't been wrung out. I dumped almost all the water out, so it's just wet at the bottom. But the more I think about it...

So, I'm gonna pull the two Utrics out of the bottom containers and just put them on upside down net pots. I was thinking they might appreciate the added moisture as they just completed a three day journey. However, from what you've said and from what I've read elsewhere (I've been reading up on these the last two days) they were probably a little bit more wet than they wanted to be during shipping. So, that said, I'll post pics in a bit.

I'm very preoccupied with the temperature drop dilemma. I think for tonight I'm going to place a fan at one of the end openings and plug it in to a timer I have. Set on low, timed to come on ...say 30 minutes after lights out, and turn off a few minutes after the lights come back on. We'll see what kind of temp drop that creates. Hopefully 10* more than the current 7-9* drop. I doubt it will be that dramatic, but I've been wrong before. I'd rather be lucky than right any day. Hahaha. Just kiddin. Kinda. Anyway, my little humidity sensor will log the new low and I'll go from there. Hell, I might even put an ice tray in front of the fan of I'm not seeing a good enough drop.

Thanks again for putting so much time and thought into your posts. I always learn something, not just on this thread but in lots of others in a broad range of the hobby. Pretty cool.

Cheers,
-@.
By w03
Posts:  393
Joined:  Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:46 am
#241396
U. alpina seems to be a pretty typical intermediate/highland Utricularia, just put it in live sphagnum and it'll take off. It's super vigorous and puts out lots of thick stolons. This one tolerates somewhat warmer temps than others from sect. Orchidioides (or so I've heard - I've only grown it in an HL setup). A drop to something like 60-64F will probably be enough as long as day temps aren't extreme. It will also be ok in slightly wetter media than most epiphytics, but soggy is still bad.

I would treat G. hispidula a little different from terrestrial Utricularia. Mine seems to do best in a very well drained, but wet mix of coarsely chopped sphagnum (about 1'' pieces), peat, perlite, and lots of sand. The biggest point though is to give it a lot of light - even more so than other species of Genlisea. Insufficient light tends to lead to rot problems and slow growth. Like other Genlisea, high humidity is a must. Although it does tolerate small temp drops to some extent, it grows best in warm lowland environments.

I keep it in a pot with holes cut in the sides and bottom for traps to grow out of. Water is kept about 1/2 way up the pot and frequently changed to prevent it from being anaerobic. This species does actually likes "wet feet" in my experience (though not soaked as one might keep something like G. aurea). The traps need water to function well. It flowers quite easily, but unless you give it enough light (mine was under 24h photoperiod when it was flowering and setting seed) they tend to abort.

Overall, the best option would be to have different setups for the plants, as they have rather different requirements.
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By w03
Posts:  393
Joined:  Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:46 am
#241404
On another note, I see no problem with U. alpina as your first highland plant. It's quite tolerant of different conditions and is the easiest of the Utricularia from sect. Orchidioides.

Also, I forgot to mention that Genlisea tend to grow a little wider than the leaves might indicate, since they make two types of traps. One goes straight down into the ground, and one is shorter going sideways just under the surface of the soil (these make good trap pullings once the plant gets bigger). It's just something to consider when thinking of pot sizes and top-dressing.

Sorry for the rant :p
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By iamjacksplants
Posts:  590
Joined:  Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:13 am
#241689
w03 wrote:On another note, I see no problem with U. alpina as your first highland plant. It's quite tolerant of different conditions and is the easiest of the Utricularia from sect. Orchidioides.

Also, I forgot to mention that Genlisea tend to grow a little wider than the leaves might indicate, since they make two types of traps. One goes straight down into the ground, and one is shorter going sideways just under the surface of the soil (these make good trap pullings once the plant gets bigger). It's just something to consider when thinking of pot sizes and top-dressing.

Sorry for the rant :p
Hey w03 and SerMuncherIV,

Thanks so much for all the detailed information.

And w03, by all means, rant to your hearts content! That's what I'm here for! Both you and SerMuncherIV come across as very knowledgeable, and also very passionate about these plants and your personal experiences with their needs, as well as conditions which can be detrimental. I'm passionate about my knowledge base, and my plants as well so I respect and appreciate the advice and opinions of those who are ...like minded shall we say. So, no apologies needed.

I do regret not replying to this thread sooner, however I haven't been on the forum much since that day as I immediately set about the task of corrections to my grow area. It's a little slow going, but I'm getting there bit by bit. I'll have higher humidity and much stronger light by the end of the day. I hope to have my expansion complete by mid week, as well as one cooling fan for nighttime.

I'm designing an automatic cooling system, but it's going to be a couple weeks before I can implement that.

Fortunately, keeping the plants drier than I originally intended seems to be working quite well as all three plants are spreading rather rapidly. However, I am a little concerned with their coloration as all of them were a tiny bit yellowish green, rather than the deep or bright green I'm familiar with in all my other plants, upon arrival. As I said they ARE spreading rapidly, but they have NOT "greened up" much if at all. :?

Any thoughts on that guys?

I'm running 6500k tubes in all my fixtures. I added two more Friday night and will be adding a third as soon as the postman brings it.

Some folks have had luck with a variety of color temperatures combined in one area. For instance, in a 4 lamp fixture, one each of 3000k, 4100k, 5000k and 6500k. This makes sense to me as it would simulate the varied intensity of the natural daily sun cycle, rather than just blazing "day light" all day.

So...uh-oh! Gotta run, my stuff just got here!!! :P

Cheers,
-@.
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