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By Sundews69
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Posts:  1390
Joined:  Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:57 pm
#412693
Hey everyone,

I've really wanted a N. hamata for a while, but I don't want to get one if it'll die. Has anybody grown them seccesfully under intermediate conditions? If you have, do you have any tips or tricks? I plan to try something that is much cheaper but requires the same conditions before I try a pure hamata. Does anyone have any suggestions?
By John W
Posts:  122
Joined:  Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:11 pm
#412722
When I asked this a month or so ago someone told me the temperature drop of 10 degrees and high humidity are very important.

The BE-3380 is the most forgiving supposedly.

I’m growing wistuba clone 3 in intermediate and it has survived the first month bagged and has a new pitcher. I’ll keep a log of how it handles the summer with day temps at 83 and night temps at 71
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By nimbulan
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Posts:  2334
Joined:  Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:03 pm
#412731
I've seen people grow hamata in full lowland conditions before, but they end up with horribly deformed pitchers after a while. I couldn't say exactly where the tipping point is but the plants will certainly prefer cooler temps.
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By specialkayme
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Posts:  235
Joined:  Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:02 am
#412809
Sundews69 wrote:I've really wanted a N. hamata for a while, but I don't want to get one if it'll die.
All plants will die eventually. Some won't survive transplant or shipping shock. Some will survive for a few months. Some will survive for a few years. Others will survive for a few decades. But unless you're planning on growing a bonsai, it won't be alive long term. The question is how many years are you looking to enjoy its company before it moves on.
Sundews69 wrote:Has anybody grown them seccesfully under intermediate conditions? If you have, do you have any tips or tricks?
I have a Hamata (3380) that has been growing in intermediate conditions since 4/18/2021. The actual temperature and humidity over the last year is below. It tends to grow slower in the summer months (when temps are higher) and better in the winter months (when you get the cooler nights), but it's put off some neat pitchers. Overall I'd agree that humidity is more important to hamata than temperatures, and temperature differential (drop at night) is more important than actual temperature (within reason). I have a few small heaters in the grow area to target a minimum day temp of 75 or so. During the winter it usually hits 75, but in the summer it can hit 80. The heaters turn off at night, and it's just whatever temperature the room gets, typically high 60's in the summer and high 50's in the winter. Humidity targets 75% during the day, and 90% at night. But there's some variation there.

Because I was able to keep it alive, I got another hamta (4044) and an edwardsiana last November. Both are considerably slower to adapt and grow than 3380.
Sundews69 wrote: I plan to try something that is much cheaper but requires the same conditions before I try a pure hamata. Does anyone have any suggestions?
If you haven't owned a nepenthes before, I'd suggest going with something that isn't expensive and is a prolific grower. A Sanguinea is my go to recommendation. Grows like a weed.

If you want something a little more challenging, and as a bridgeway into a hamata, I'd recommend a hamata cross. I originally thought I couldn't keep a pure hamata alive, so I got a burkei x hamata. It's listed as a "highland" but it grows really well in intermediate conditions. Throws off some nice, dark, toothy pitchers.

If you want something a little more exotic than that, Carnivero has some good toothy (which I consider villosa, hamata, edwardsiana, diabolica, and macrophylla) crosses. Something mixed with veitchii would work well. I have a veitchii x edwardsiana and a villosa x veitchii that both grow substantially better than any of my pure species. I also have an edwardsiana x maxima that appears to love all growing conditions. Puts off some large (semi)toothy pitchers. I wouldn't call any of them cheap though.

FWIW, crosses between the toothy species I haven't found to be very prolific. I have a hamata x edwardsiana that was supposedly going to be more vigorous than hamata or edwardsiana, due largely to hybrid vigor. The vigor might be 5-10% more growth. Which, while nothing to shake a stick at, if it takes my eddy 5 months to put off a new leaf, 5-10% faster would put it at 19-20 weeks instead of 21 weeks. Not much difference really. I would suspect hamata x villosa, or Harryana (villosa x edwardsiana) to perform the same.
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By Sundews69
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Posts:  1390
Joined:  Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:57 pm
#412817
specialkayme wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:33 pm
Sundews69 wrote:I've really wanted a N. hamata for a while, but I don't want to get one if it'll die.
All plants will die eventually. Some won't survive transplant or shipping shock. Some will survive for a few months. Some will survive for a few years. Others will survive for a few decades. But unless you're planning on growing a bonsai, it won't be alive long term. The question is how many years are you looking to enjoy its company before it moves on.
Sundews69 wrote:Has anybody grown them seccesfully under intermediate conditions? If you have, do you have any tips or tricks?
I have a Hamata (3380) that has been growing in intermediate conditions since 4/18/2021. The actual temperature and humidity over the last year is below. It tends to grow slower in the summer months (when temps are higher) and better in the winter months (when you get the cooler nights), but it's put off some neat pitchers. Overall I'd agree that humidity is more important to hamata than temperatures, and temperature differential (drop at night) is more important than actual temperature (within reason). I have a few small heaters in the grow area to target a minimum day temp of 75 or so. During the winter it usually hits 75, but in the summer it can hit 80. The heaters turn off at night, and it's just whatever temperature the room gets, typically high 60's in the summer and high 50's in the winter. Humidity targets 75% during the day, and 90% at night. But there's some variation there.

Because I was able to keep it alive, I got another hamta (4044) and an edwardsiana last November. Both are considerably slower to adapt and grow than 3380.
Sundews69 wrote: I plan to try something that is much cheaper but requires the same conditions before I try a pure hamata. Does anyone have any suggestions?
If you haven't owned a nepenthes before, I'd suggest going with something that isn't expensive and is a prolific grower. A Sanguinea is my go to recommendation. Grows like a weed.

If you want something a little more challenging, and as a bridgeway into a hamata, I'd recommend a hamata cross. I originally thought I couldn't keep a pure hamata alive, so I got a burkei x hamata. It's listed as a "highland" but it grows really well in intermediate conditions. Throws off some nice, dark, toothy pitchers.

If you want something a little more exotic than that, Carnivero has some good toothy (which I consider villosa, hamata, edwardsiana, diabolica, and macrophylla) crosses. Something mixed with veitchii would work well. I have a veitchii x edwardsiana and a villosa x veitchii that both grow substantially better than any of my pure species. I also have an edwardsiana x maxima that appears to love all growing conditions. Puts off some large (semi)toothy pitchers. I wouldn't call any of them cheap though.

FWIW, crosses between the toothy species I haven't found to be very prolific. I have a hamata x edwardsiana that was supposedly going to be more vigorous than hamata or edwardsiana, due largely to hybrid vigor. The vigor might be 5-10% more growth. Which, while nothing to shake a stick at, if it takes my eddy 5 months to put off a new leaf, 5-10% faster would put it at 19-20 weeks instead of 21 weeks. Not much difference really. I would suspect hamata x villosa, or Harryana (villosa x edwardsiana) to perform the same.
Thanks for all the info! I know plants don't live forever. I just want one I can enjoy for a long time. I have grown neps before. I have two plants, same hybrid. N x briggsiana or N. lowii x ventricosa 'red'.

Any toothy species hybrids (with vilosa, macrophylla, etc.) are usually too expensive for me with the exception of some hamata hybrids. I would love a robcantleyi x hamata but that is too expensive. I'll
probably do a hamata x vent or burkei.

My conditions have ultra-highland daytime temps and warm intermediate nighttime temps. Annoying!! Is 72-76 daytime temps and 68-72 nighttime temps during the summer and 69-72 daytime and 62-66 nighttime temps in winter ok?
Last edited by Sundews69 on Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By specialkayme
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Posts:  235
Joined:  Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:02 am
#412894
Sundews69 wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 2:58 pm Is 72-76 daytime temps and 68-72 nighttime temps during the summer and 69-72 daytime and 62-66 nighttime temps in winter ok?
For some nepenthes, absolutely. For other nepenthes, not so much. Each plant has a personality, even two different species will have different preferences to light, humidity, day temp and night temp. There's a guy in Michigan that grows a hamata on his windowsill, no supplemental heating, cooling, or humidity. It gets down to 5% RH in the winter with the heater going, and the hamata has been going gangbusters for years. If anyone else tried to replicate that in their own home, they'd likely have a dead plant. Because that particular species has a different personality, preference and tolerance than other species. Where yours will fall, who knows.

You can use the nepenthes guide as a helpful tool. https://www.carnivorousplants.co.uk/res ... ive-guide/
It isn't fool proof, but it'll point you in the right direction.

For example, your temps (day and night) are putting you just about in the 1,000m to 1,500m range. Which are square in the intermediate range. You can either find a species that lives squarely in that range, or find a hybrid that puts the average in that range. Hamata is 1,400m to 2,500m, which means if you find a species that's on the lower end of that range, it's within the upper end of your range, and you could be fine. Or you cross it with something to get it closer to the middle.
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By Camden M
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Posts:  504
Joined:  Mon May 23, 2022 9:25 pm
#412936
Hello, I am relatively new to this whole forum thing. (This is perfect timing for this because I was just going to post about this exact subject :lol: ) do you guys think I could acclimate a Hamata to lower to no temperature drop at night and low humidity?
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By nimbulan
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Posts:  2334
Joined:  Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:03 pm
#412960
Camden M wrote:Hello, I am relatively new to this whole forum thing. (This is perfect timing for this because I was just going to post about this exact subject :lol: ) do you guys think I could acclimate a Hamata to lower to no temperature drop at night and low humidity?
I would not count on being able to acclimate hamata to low humidity, particularly as a small plant. People say this species gets more tolerant as it matures (which is the opposite of most) but I haven't been able to test that claim.
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