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By Apollyon
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Posts:  1143
Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#372320
Sounds like the same rules would apply. If you do find out more, I'd be interested in hearing about it. I recently acquired one myself that had a baby division in there I potted separately. I intended to give it away if it survived. It's getting the tough love treatment outside but most of it is still green.
By DragonsEye
Posts:  301
Joined:  Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:22 pm
#372327
Loop holes are indeed numerous and somewhat ridiculous. For example, CITES aside, say you have a friend in Canada you wish to send some non-CITES plants to. There are a some prohibitive hoops to jump through and expenses beyond simple postage. However, if that friend has friends or family in the States, they can have the plants sent to their friends/family, drive across the border, pick them up, and drive back over the border with no problem. The number of plants is limited to something like 10 plants but still.....
By hungry carnivores
#372351
I had a friend who was selling N. Rajahs and Oreos and was paid a visit by a USDA inspector. Just be wary. USDA inspectors have federal jurisdiction, powers of arrest, and are able to investigate you with a warrant(or probable cause but I don't know what 'probable cause' is when you grow plants. (No, not THOSE plants, carnivorous plants). That said, many shops sell oreos and rajahs across state lines. I'm sure there's ways around it but don't take my advice as I am not an agricultural lawyer.
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By ChefDean
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Joined:  Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:44 am
#372353
hungry carnivores wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:10 pm I had a friend who was selling N. Rajahs and Oreos and was paid a visit by a USDA inspector. Just be wary. USDA inspectors have federal jurisdiction, powers of arrest, and are able to investigate you with a warrant(or probable cause but I don't know what 'probable cause' is when you grow plants. (No, not THOSE plants, carnivorous plants). That said, many shops sell oreos and rajahs across state lines. I'm sure there's ways around it but don't take my advice as I am not an agricultural lawyer.
Was he selling intrastate or interstate? Federal only applies when you cross state lines, they have no jurisdiction if it stays within a state.
What happened with the investigation? Was he arrested? Cited? Given a stern talking-to? A warrant or probable cause isn't needed to talk to someone, but it is necessary for a search or arrest.
I've seen some shops advertising Oreos and such, but they also clearly state that they have the proper permits to do so. I'm assuming they have proven whatever they need to in order to gain those permits. Then they charge accordingly.
By hungry carnivores
#372355
ChefDean wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:29 pm
hungry carnivores wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:10 pm I had a friend who was selling N. Rajahs and Oreos and was paid a visit by a USDA inspector. Just be wary. USDA inspectors have federal jurisdiction, powers of arrest, and are able to investigate you with a warrant(or probable cause but I don't know what 'probable cause' is when you grow plants. (No, not THOSE plants, carnivorous plants). That said, many shops sell oreos and rajahs across state lines. I'm sure there's ways around it but don't take my advice as I am not an agricultural lawyer.
Was he selling intrastate or interstate? Federal only applies when you cross state lines, they have no jurisdiction if it stays within a state.
What happened with the investigation? Was he arrested? Cited? Given a stern talking-to? A warrant or probable cause isn't needed to talk to someone, but it is necessary for a search or arrest.
I've seen some shops advertising Oreos and such, but they also clearly state that they have the proper permits to do so. I'm assuming they have proven whatever they need to in order to gain those permits. Then they charge accordingly.
Well yeah, he was selling across state lines. I kinda thought it would be obvious since otherwise that is state jurisdiction but thank you for clarifying.
Since he was a minor he was given a stern talking to, they didn't even confiscate the plants. From what i heard he was asked 'have you sold these plants across state lines' and he said 'yes' and they said, 'well you have to stop unless you want to pay thousands of dollars in fines'.
I thought the only shop able to do so was Meadowview or NASC. Hm, maybe I can apply for a permit and then import rajahs from wistuba for cheap? :D :D :D
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By Matt
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Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
#372356
hungry carnivores wrote:Hm, maybe I can apply for a permit and then import rajahs from wistuba for cheap?
After ordering a S. oreophila from Meadowview this summer, I decided to apply for a permit myself, just to see what was involved and if I could acquire one. If I could acquire one, I could legally sell some of the S. alabamensis and S. jonesii I grow. I applied in September and still have nothing.

I just checked the status and it states "In RO for Review" which means it is being reviewed by the Regional office where I applied. I wonder if they'll complete the process in less than a year?!! :lol:
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By Apollyon
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Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#372364
@Matt, I remember asking Mike Wang about it one time when I was on this endangered kick and he said that he had applied and it got lost in the red tape or it was going in circles, something to that effect. He ultimately decided to give up on it. I hope it does work out for you though because you have a reputation already and that'd probably be awesome for business if you could get some good clones.
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By Matt
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Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
#372366
@Apollyon, interesting. I hadn't asked Mike about his experience with applying for a permit to sell endangered species. I'll have to ask him about it next time we "chat" (email). I'm not overly optimistic that I'll be granted a permit, but if I am, I'd love to offer some good clones of endangered species by propagating them in tissue culture. That's basically what I said on the application. I'll post back here if I ever hear back from the FWS.
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By Apollyon
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Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#374751
ilsaban wrote:Trading in general is a really great thing actually, however being successful at it, is not that easy, not at all.
It's one of the best parts of the hobby. Unfortunately, it is sometimes hard to tell what someone is about through a screen. What I can say however, is this particular community has been very good and the vast majority are great/honest people(Everyone I know is). I've had a couple of experiences where members reached out to inform me of potential issues. It's a unique and great aspect of FTC. Hopefully you have better experiences going forward.
By hungrycarnivores
Posts:  112
Joined:  Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:53 pm
#374846
sanguinearocks101 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:24 am
hungry carnivores wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:24 pm Hm, maybe I can apply for a permit and then import rajahs from wistuba for cheap? :D :D :D
I have thought about doing this, if someone was able to do it then they would be able to make tons.
And, worse, you could be like the PRE of rajah and khasiana. Wistuba sells them for 30 Eur smalls and 40 eur mediums. Buy $500 worth, keep it in a highland/intermediate grow chamber, and shipping will be like 100 lets say. Now, assuming you have roughly 15 plants, 600/15 = 40 as your break-even cost. Double it and sell for $80, you will be larger and cheaper than any other seller. Then, you will drive the prices down and you can start cutting down the prices until you have no competition with Rajah and Khasiana and become a quasi-exclusive seller.

Not to mention AW does bulk deals. And maybe then order from BCP with their rajahs and buy clumps.... and make 600 bucks a run of the above. Then, double your order amount, sell out, double it. Then, maintain and collect the profits.
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By sanguinearocks101
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Joined:  Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:56 am
#374904
hungrycarnivores wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:31 pmDouble it and sell for $80, you will be larger and cheaper than any other seller. Then, you will drive the prices down and you can start cutting down the prices until you have no competition with Rajah and Khasiana and become a quasi-exclusive seller.
I probably would sell them for much higher than $80 each if I did end up doing this.
By hungrycarnivores
Posts:  112
Joined:  Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:53 pm
#374986
NE sells them for 100. And you are a random dude, not the leading source of CP's in the US. Maybe auctions are good, start at 80? I've had people get pretty impulsive with auctions.
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By sanguinearocks101
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#375147
hungrycarnivores wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:54 am NE sells them for 100. And you are a random dude, not the leading source of CP's in the US. Maybe auctions are good, start at 80? I've had people get pretty impulsive with auctions.
I expected them to sell for much more than $80, do they sell the very small seedlings for $80?
By jose
Posts:  154
Joined:  Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:18 pm
#375149
Speculating about AW’s rajah is pretty useless. You’ll never be able to import them. They’re not bigger than the BE ones, getting a response from Wistuba is like getting blood from a stone, and it’s illegal without the paperwork which he says he clearly isn’t interested in doing
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