FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

Sponsored by FlytrapStore.com

Got a carnivorous plant and you don't know what it is? Ask here!

Moderator: Matt

User avatar
By Jedikinigit
Location: 
Posts:  110
Joined:  Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:35 pm
#444074
Trying to better understand some of the details of how plants are named and how I should record them, especially if I ever try to do any crosses. I have purchased some plants and the naming is all over the place. Some were labelled as lost tag so I get that those can't probably be re-traced to anything.

However, many of them include the location (county or town and state), is that normal? Why is it important to include (not trying to be stupid with this question), but I would assume that once a plant is removed from its natural environment it does not necessarily look or grow the same way? If I were to cross a plant with a location name does that carry over?

What about people's names? For instance I have one that is listed as S. minor (Bob Hanrahan, Lois Ochs) what does that mean?

Thank you. I searched and tried to find information on the site, but did not see anything.
User avatar
By ChefDean
Location: 
Posts:  9501
Joined:  Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:44 am
#444075
Jedikinigit wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:19 amSome were labelled as lost tag so I get that those can't probably be re-traced to anything.
Depends on the plant. Without a label, a VFT is officially a typical, a Sarracenia might simply be "leuco cross" or other name depending on what identifying characteristics there are, most of the others will simply be what they are such as Drosera capensis, Cephalotus follicularis, or Utricularia sandersonii.
Jedikinigit wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:19 amHowever, many of them include the location (county or town and state), is that normal?
Yes, because there can be slight phenotypic differences due to the different environment that each location has and the different genes expressed.
Jedikinigit wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:19 am Why is it important to include (not trying to be stupid with this question), but I would assume that once a plant is removed from its natural environment it does not necessarily look or grow the same way?
Different environments may influence future growth patterns, but the genes and genetic expression will generally be the same range as is in situ, provided similar conditions can be given. That's what most growers are looking for; 93% genetics and 7% looks (I just pulled those numbers out of thin air).
Jedikinigit wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:19 amIf I were to cross a plant with a location name does that carry over?
For the purposes of knowing what genetics may he passed on, yes. But it can also quickly become irrelevant. If I have a nice, big, orange capensis (Bainskloof), but cross it with a "Mini Red", it'll likely lose both size and color. It'll be nice to know the parentage, but the F1 seeds produced from that cross will likely have dozens of different variations due to the genetic soup that the seeds will have, and F2 could have hundreds of variations.
Jedikinigit wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:19 amWhat about people's names? For instance I have one that is listed as S. minor (Bob Hanrahan, Lois Ochs) what does that mean?
Mostly, those are the names of the people who either found a unique population or created that cross. Sometimes those names are incorporated into the name of the plant, but they have quotes rather than parentheses.
User avatar
By Jedikinigit
Location: 
Posts:  110
Joined:  Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:35 pm
#444076
Thank you for the spectacular explanations! This is very helpful.
User avatar
By MikeB
Location: 
Posts:  1946
Joined:  Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:13 pm
#444079
If you start buying hybrids, here's an example and explanation of the naming convention:

Sarracenia x moorei - leucophylla 'Purple Lips' x flava var. ornata

The first plant is the female (seed) parent, and the second plant is the male (pollen) parent.
User avatar
By nimbulan
Location: 
Posts:  2398
Joined:  Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:03 pm
#444080
I'd also like to add that a person's name being attached to a plant also may simply indicate who the plant was obtained from. There are certainly a variety of reasons.

With regards to location data, I feel like I can offer some insight here as someone who actively collects some plants with location data. It's basically a way to indicate the genetic origin of a plant, which in turn informs growers of certain traits the plant is likely to possess (for instance Sarracenia purpurea from Ontario may look significantly different from Sarracenia purpurea from New Jersey. Sometimes specific populations of plants can have fairly unique traits which can make them more desirable as well. Sometimes these traits are environmental and don't come through in cultivation, but that's usually not the case in my experience.

There's also one more reason why location data is useful: taxonomic changes. When a new scientific paper is published which re-classifies some plants, by splitting a species into multiple for instance, having location data can be very useful for determining which new species your plant is now classified as.

As for offspring produced from location plants: Say you were to cross the two aforementioned S. purpurea, then you could label the offspring as S. purpurea, Ontario x New Jersey (or the reverse, depending on how you did the cross.) As with the "pure" location plants, that extra information informs growers of the genetics of the plants and the traits they may possess. And of course if you were to cross two plants with the same location data, you could keep the same label.

I hope this helps.
ChefDean, andynorth, Jedikinigit and 1 others liked this
User avatar
By Jedikinigit
Location: 
Posts:  110
Joined:  Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:35 pm
#447928
If I request Sarracenia seeds from the bank that are labeled as OP how do they get labeled, assuming I get them to grow? I didn't request this month, but probably will next month.

For example this: S. jonesii OP

Just hypothesizing here but would they be essentially unnamed. But let's say one of them was spectacular I could select, grow out, propogate and name it as a cultivar S. jonesii "SeedBank" or more logically S. jonesii "Chef" :) ?
User avatar
By ChefDean
Location: 
Posts:  9501
Joined:  Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:44 am
#447939
For seed purposes, they'll be labeled xxx OP. The plants grown from them should, I think, simply be labeled xxx hybrid. In this case S. jonesii hybrid.
If one does exhibit something spectacular and stable, then a registered cultivar called S. "Chef's Kiss" is well within the realm of possibilities.
Jedikinigit liked this
User avatar
By Jedikinigit
Location: 
Posts:  110
Joined:  Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:35 pm
#447941
ChefDean wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:59 am For seed purposes, they'll be labeled xxx OP. The plants grown from them should, I think, simply be labeled xxx hybrid. In this case S. jonesii hybrid.
If one does exhibit something spectacular and stable, then a registered cultivar called S. "Chef's Kiss" is well within the realm of possibilities.
Can you clarify what is meant by stable? Would you need to propogate from a bud and see if the trait came through?
User avatar
By ChefDean
Location: 
Posts:  9501
Joined:  Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:44 am
#447942
Essentially just that. If whatever characteristics that make it unique can be duplicated by vegetative propagation, then it's stable. Many times it just a localized mutation that shows something different, but cannot be duplicated.
Jedikinigit liked this
Drosera seedlings moldy

What are your conditions? mould is normally associ[…]

Dewy Pine seed planting advice?

Does it make a difference if the seeds are covered[…]

Transaction with BumpyEvergreen

I can attest to the same fact for dewsandtraps as […]

How to clone this pitcher plant?

For the most part you'll just have to wait. You ca[…]

Weird Venus Flytrap

Grow them anyway? If they look nice, the name does[…]

Hey, everyone!

Welcome to the forum.

If be careful about putting it against the shed[…]

Support the community - Shop at FlytrapStore.com!