FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

Hi I found this while trying to verify what I was about to write on a thread !! Dr. S. Miensinompe had stated some very interesting things in this paper that may make you think again how to treat your VFT's in the future , the parts of great interest to me was in the colouration ,fertilising ,minerals and media , , his findings are quite astounding to me and dose not quite fit with what we know here in Australia , but who knows we may have it all wrong ??, let me know what you all think its quite a read so set some time aside
J

http://www.strato.net/~crvny/sa03005.html

why john why a huge chunk of text it makes me sad

Thanks very much for posting this up John!

Edit/disclaimer* This rant is collectively against everyone who mistreats and overextends observations into wild statements that they claim to be fact, and not all of this emotion is aimed at this guy but should be kind of spread around to all websites and sources of information that do this. The very reason I like these forums is that it doesn't happen very often here, so thanks to all of you guys for teaching me how to take care of these plants! On to the rant:



This is a very good example of someone taking specific observations, and drawing conclusions that are way beyond the scope of the actual observation. I try to ignore these people as much as possible.

On these forums I will occasionally speculate as to why a specific thing is occurring, but I try to keep my speculations within the realm of plausibility based on what we know about these plants, and I make it clear that I'm just speculating. If I can't do those two things I don't post the comment. Other than that I only post responses when I have personal experience with the problem or phenotype. I appreciate this forum for the people who can speak from a wealth of experience, which is really just practical experimentation, and who don't "overstep their bounds" so to speak.

This "thesis" (which it isn't, at all), seems to be based on two things: his limited experience, and what experts have told him. You can easily distinguish between the two classes. The things that experts have told him are what we read and write on these forums, and you can tell that he's talked to experts about things like evolution of the plants, which shows a good interest. These points are well articulated and clear and rational. Then he's got his own ideas, which deviate from pretty much everything I've ever read about the subject, and in most cases are completely unsubstantiated. Even in the cases where he provides evidence, it doesn't lead to the conclusion that he makes. For example, his take on dormancy:

"All of the theories that I have read, so far, have stated that the dormancy period of the Venus Flytrap is activated by light and temperature conditions; however, I have a couple of Venus Flytraps which did not get fully affected by the light of the sun or the temperature during this winter (mostly 65°F-50°F). These plants were growing fast and large all throughout the winter months. However, on April, these two plants began to enter into their dormancy period. "

"I bought these two plants four months before their April dormancy. During which time, although winter was just beginning, the plants appeared to be growing their summer leaves. Apparently, this dormancy process is triggered by more than light, it is also governed by a biological timing rhythm."

So, despite all of the collective knowledge about these plants, and based on a sample size of two, and not giving us any information about the conditions that the plants were under, or where he got them, or showing us pictures, or even describing the shape and size of the leaves or rate of growth, and not taking into account confirmation bias, he says that flytraps have an internal biological clock WHICH APPARENTLY DOESN'T WORK ANYWAY BECAUSE HE SAID HIS PLANTS WENT DORMANT IN APRIL. So the faulty biological clock in this case was overriding the cues from light and temperature and forcing the plant to go dormant at the wrong time. A perfectly reasonable conclusion based on observations of two plants.

Overstretching conclusions like this is how misinformation like "put your plant in a terrarium" gets started and spread around.

Then he makes this statement:

"These plants I bought, where probably subjected to dormancy until the late summer, to be sold during the winter months. "

I... don't even know where to start with this one. I should probably ask if this actually occurs, for the sake of good practice. Do any nurseries intentionally put their plants into induced dormancy during the summer? I feel less intelligent for even asking that question. But the point is he makes this conclusion based on a change in the growth habit of his two plants, and as far as he states, that's it! Ok, so I have a question. If the nursery was able to put the plants into an artificial dormancy (I assume with low temperatures and light, he doesn't describe any other way to do it), resetting the plant's biological clock, then why didn't the lengthening days and warming temps during April reset it back?

I don't claim to be an expert, but he makes statements that directly conflict with my personal experience, he makes statements that I've never heard before (and I've done a lot of reading), and he makes statements that I highly doubt he had any feasible way to test.

I'm not even saying he's wrong, at least on some of his points. I'm just saying he shouldn't be presenting this like he's THE expert, ready to refute all of the other experts he's learned from, and present his unsubstantiated theories as fact.

Please tell me he's wrong about silica sand and his silver sand ideas. I find that silica sand is very nice to use. I hope he's wrong about that. I would agree though. I'd like to add that even if he recieved his plants that were in dormant shape in the summer. Goes completely against what else he say about them being on a biological clock, and that light, and temperature cues don't matter as much as their "clock."

In a sense, what he says in some spots, actually contradict what he says in others. He seems a well versed person. Maybe his theories are legit. Or maybe he should post more, get a better idea of what others think and use pictures to back his claims.

Yeah this guy is contradicting himself in a lot of cases and is full of speculation. He just rambles. I have use silica sand for 3 years 50/50 with peat and my flytraps are flourishing. I have never lost a CP (except for when a squirrel got too curious for its on good DOH !)))

This not a reliable read at all.

Surpirsingly I've already read that articlke.

Very interesting article!

ok guys good its just not me then , found some of the stuff in there hhmmm well a bit iffy to say the least , from 25 years of experience or being around and hearing !! and a collective experience of some 500 years well more really in our society , but one must be open to new ideas and thinking , so even some statements may not be what we are proven procedures , there could all ways be room for alterniative thinkings
, thanks for taking the time to read it
J

Nice!