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By boarderlib
Posts:  1639
Joined:  Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:13 pm
I wouldn't be to upset. It could've been a lot worse, you could've got a bunch of half rotted plants. At least they're all healthy.

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By Matt
Posts:  21191
Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
zsyxcbibi wrote:That "Jaws" 's petioles are way too long than they should be. Honestly I don't see any of those plants showing the traits they suppose to have
That was my thought on the Jaws as well. It shouldn't have leaves that long.
By Trapped
Posts:  27
Joined:  Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:17 am
[quote="Beaver746"]Well this sucks... Never ordering from him again. I'll just relabel them all typical. That was a waste of money. Thanks for all the help guys.

So now you hate all your plants? I thought they looked pretty good. And I would imagine coming from him, they weren't that expensive as he was one of the more inexpensive sellers. Do you feel you were deceived in some way? Just curious.
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By evenwind
Posts:  901
Joined:  Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:16 pm
In my experience, his plants are "as pictured", healthy and usually inexpensive.

The choices seem pretty straight forward to me:

- If you don't like/trust him, simply don't buy from him.
- If you like his plants but aren't sure the names are correct, add a notation on the tag (like a simple question mark after the name) and enjoy your plant. If you ever sell or give away a piece, pass the notation along. That'll keep the "bloodlines" pure.
- If it's important to you to know if his label is correct, contact him. I've done this for a plant I was going to trade. He was cooperative and kept good records. I was able to trace my plant back to the original grower with a high degree of confidence.
- If you want to be 100% sure, bypass all the discount sellers and buy only from places like FTS.
By Beaver746
Posts:  100
Joined:  Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:11 pm
Trapped wrote:
Beaver746 wrote:Well this sucks... Never ordering from him again. I'll just relabel them all typical. That was a waste of money. Thanks for all the help guys.

So now you hate all your plants? I thought they looked pretty good. And I would imagine coming from him, they weren't that expensive as he was one of the more inexpensive sellers. Do you feel you were deceived in some way? Just curious.
No I don't hate my plants at all, I love them... The point is I bought his plants because they were described as leaf pulling of the real cultivars and that's not what I received. The fact that they are "cheap" doesn't mean he can lie about the fact they are not true leaf pullings of a specific cultivar. He isn't just deceiving me, he is deceiving every person that is new to this hobby that don't know better and buy his plants.

These comments are referring to the flytraps maroon monster, jaws, and so on that are labeled as leaf pulling.

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By DTDream18
Posts:  605
Joined:  Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:09 pm
I think that I might have been the first person on this forum to point out the dishonesty of Fingers001. He used to describe his plants with words like "Here is a venus flytrap called B52" . In his early days of selling VFT's on Ebay I wrote to him and questioned if one of the plants that he was selling was a division, tissue cultured or something else.

He wrote back that it was grown from seed. I informed him that he was being dishonest and he immediately took down his Ebay auction. I knew then that he was dishonest.

I one time asked him a direct question about his auctions here on this forum, and either he does not have a grasp of the English language or he was purposely trying to double talk and spin in reply to my forum question.

I've owned Jaws for many years. I've got over a dozen of them now. The first ones I bought from Matt at Flytrapstore. Gorgeous, vicious looking cultivar. The plant photo that Beaver746 posted here on this forum look nothing like the Jaws in my collection. NOT EVEN CLOSE ... sorry. And I'm skeptical of the Maroon Monster too.

Buy from Fingers001 at your own risk. I'd say that there's about a 90% chance you'll be ripped off.
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By Earthy
Posts:  1292
Joined:  Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:58 pm
boarderlib wrote:Unless that Maroon Monster was grown in low light, I would say it's not a Maroon Monster. I have a MM and it's way more burgundy than yours. The Jaws I can't comment on as I don't have one.

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hmmmm..yea, My Maroons are also more burgundy, and I have a Jaws, and even when mine were waking up inside the house and putting out long leaves they didn't look that skinny or "wimpy". now they are all upright. so I'd be a "maybe" on the Maroon and a "suspicious" on the Jaws :?
By Branmuffin
Posts:  394
Joined:  Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:29 pm
Keep in mind he does state they are grown in a greenhouse, I have a maroon monster from him that is one of my favorite plants, it showed up mostly green and is now a deep burgundy. I think a lot of hisnplants are light deprived and why they come across as stringy sometimes or under colored.

I have bought several plants from him and they are all fantastic, maybe they are seed grown but they were leabled as leaf propigations and true to name cultivators and every trait supports that so that how I will keep mine named.
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By boarderlib
Posts:  1639
Joined:  Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:13 pm
A seed grown plant is a typical, plain and simple no matter what the parentage is. If I have two Maroon Monsters, and I cross them no matter what the seedlings look like they are typicals, even if they appear exactly the same as the parents. They are NOT Maroon Monsters. A true cultivar is a propagation of the exact original named plant, not it's brother or sister or cousin.

Fingers has proven over and over again that he cannot be trusted by using vague explanations, or politicians answers. Search this forum and you'll see that. Does he sell healthy plants? Yes. So if you're just looking for typicals, he's probably a good source. Can you trust that you're getting a cultivar? No, because seed growns are not typicals. By labeling a seed grown plant as a cultivar you're aiding the confusion with cultivars. Not to mention if you sell that plant as a cultivar, then that could be considered fraud. Your reputation will be no better than his. I have some cross seedlings sprouting as we speak that I know the parentage of. They will never be labeled as a cultivar even though their parents are cultivars, because they are not a cultivar. Regardless of their appearance. If I sell some which I'm sure eventually I will, they'll just be cool looking typicals. Why? They were grown from seed. Cultivars are clones, seeds are like babies. They have features of mom and dad, but they may have a feature from grandma or grandpa too.

Reputable sources got that way for a reason, because they are honest and fair. Not because they are just out to make a quick buck, but because they care about these plants and their conservation. Me personally, my reputation means more to me than making a quick buck, or falsely labeling a plant.

"It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it."

Benjamin Franklin

End rant. Happy growing everyone!

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By Tubmonkey1
Posts:  22
Joined:  Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:32 pm
Is this just a case of him mislabeling the traps? I remember seeing he had something called a "Daddy Long Leg" that looked much like a WIP Slim Snapper. Your Maroon Monster looks more like A Green Dragon and the Jaws looks like a Dentate. Is it fair to just write these off as "Typical" when they obviously show very distinct traits of certain cultivars?
By Smooter80
Posts:  1038
Joined:  Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:33 pm
Maybe you don't understand what a cultivar is. It's an exact genetic copy, a clone. "Looks like" is not good enough. Any time there is any doubt, it's a typical. I would say anything sold by him is in doubt. The seller in question has been using these dishonest tactics for years.
By Tubmonkey1
Posts:  22
Joined:  Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:32 pm
How can these simply "look like" a cultivar? Is he collecting seeds from cultivars purchased then germinating them? I am unfamiliar with the result. Would the seed from a Maroon Monster produce a plant you would buy at Walmart?
What is being suggested on this post about his growing methods? I would guess he is propagating and has mislabeled things terribly over time. He then realized what he screwed up and is now coming up with names and selling many as unknown. I'm not even sure what "Seed grown tissue culture" means. I thought tissue culture was the absence of seeds. Bad wording on his behalf maybe and then got called on it?
I have purchased from him myself and have agonized over the identity of some of them. Including a few mentioned on this post labeled as such.
I personally have a tough time labeling something that looks like the Jaws of this post as a Typical.

I'm not defending the guy by any means, just looking for a little more clarity as to what is going on with him.

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