FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

While I'm willing to believe that this is a virus, and that it can be cultivated without killing the plant, the problem is that any virus with just one or two mutations could become really deadly. All viruses live on a fine balance between replicating as fast as possible, and not killing their host. It's an evolutionary arms race between the plant recognizing and killing the virus and the virus avoiding detection. If the virus mutates so the plant can't recognize it, in all likelyhood the virus will kill the plant really quickly. If you were really careful I'd guarantee you have a higher random mortality rate with spotty than with any typical, although you'd need to look at 10s of thousands of plants to see something that's statistically significant.

Long story short, (if it is a virus, in all fairness), the more of those plants that are in cultivation the more likely you'll find a mutation that will be really destructive. Really, that's the best chance you'll ever have to find a dangerous mutation, is when the virus can just replicate freely and continuously. Every new virus made is a chance.

hi all,

in first sorry for my bad english.

I have spotty and i think it's one healthy plant, it haven't got virus or something like that.

One virus or seekness cause some discolouratons on plant and leaves with discolourations became brown quickly, its not like this with spotty.

i have 3 spotty but i don't want to send one to labs to know if there is virus or not, i know this plant his healthy, it's also very very rare, and loose one for labs is not a good idea for me.


I

one other thing, it's great to put spotty in tc, but do oyu know in classic conditions leaf cutting of spotty give only green plant? just bulb division works, leaf cutting give typical vft, so it's perhaps a problem to tc this plant, lot of growers tried leaf cutting ans nobody's have success, but bulb divisions works good.

Julien wrote:one other thing, it's great to put spotty in tc, but do oyu know in classic conditions leaf cutting of spotty give only green plant? just bulb division works, leaf cutting give typical vft, so it's perhaps a problem to tc this plant, lot of growers tried leaf cutting ans nobody's have success, but bulb divisions works good.

As Steve has mentioned before, that seems to indicate a strong possibility that Spotty's unique coloration comes from a virus. Leaf pullings and cuttings should be genetically identical to the parent plant. If they aren't, then that could mean that whatever is causing the unique coloration on Spotty isn't genetic, but caused by some other phenomenon, most likely a virus.

Matt, I was joking about you having a spotty

If anybody does own one, and has a place they could send it off to to be tested it would be great!

Lot of thing can cause this color.

this is an explandation by a french growers that know very well genetic

(hope google translate it correctly)

The Venus flytrap Venus flytrap is a spotty speckled red. This plant is a seedling appeared among the year 2006.

It seems that during a cutting sheet, some of the cutting issuent seedlings do not show up stains. By cons when the plant is divided spontaneously in the bud and bud somital lattéraux, plants keep their spots.

The ets dionéeSpotty therefore appeared in the midst of a Venus flytrap seedlings classical random mutation is found with a natural site of transposon insertion in any one regulatory sequence of the biosynthetic pathway of anthocyanins responsible for the color red tissue of Dionaea. And according to the activity of this transposon, we can have disabling repressors of the expression of red so red expression in those tissues. should not consider this a mutation affecting the whole body except a mutation that can affect a cell and not its neighbors.

The transposon may inactivate the gene of the anthocyanin (rather then one of these genes if you want to be more stringent) in a cell, do not inactivate in another group of cells, inactivation in a third group, and so leading to a pattern of inactivation as seen in the pictures.


In each different cell lines of this plant we will or not activation of red that can give 'spots' in red, like this ...

It was in students with aspects of corn with odd spots like this that Barbara McClintock discovered transposons in the 1940s, which earned him the Nobel Prize in 1983, and yes, it took nearly 40 years in the scientific community to understand the work of this researcher and to admit the existence of transposons, these small bits of our genomes that do anything without knowing really what they do (unless it has is reminiscent of retroviruses) ...

Such characters may also be due to mutations in the cytoplasmic genome ... A mutation allowing greater expression of anthocyanins may take place in a chloroplast or a mitochondrion, and as their multiplication and segregation during cell division is a bit random (or at least we do not know how) you can end up with cell lines with lots of mitochondria or chloroplasts by expressing the red lines or quite normal ...

This is often a phenomenon of this kind is at the origin of plants with variegated leaves, which have a significant proportion of non-functional chloroplasts in their cells and meristematic which suddenly give regular cell lines devoid of functional chloroplasts which creates the variegated yellow or white (depending on the expression level of carotenoids in the cells).
This is also why the plants has variegated foliage are not always stable, sometimes they lose the character cooler if all non-functional chloroplasts are then removed from the meristem or all white stems produce the opposite phenomenon, and these all white stems will create a burden for the energy plant ...

The mutation is acquired for all cells descended from the mutated cell, as in plants there is no differentiation of germ line cells (which give the gametes) somatic cell lines (that part of the body that not produce gametes), it is not easy to say ... Some mutations (in fact all but a priori probabilities with more or less strong) are reversible by different mechanisms, but there is another debate ...
In terms of spatial extension everything depends on the cell that has undergone mutation. If a cell is surrounded by a sheet, only this mutated cell will be. If it is a meristem cell, all cells descended from that cell will have the mutation, in this case, several solutions, the cell and its descendants meristem disappear, then only a fixed part of the plant have the abnormality. Other cases, the mutated cells coexist in the meristem cells with non-mutated, then we will have a variegated form (which can also be called chimeric). Third case, the progeny of the mutated cell takes over the meristem and in all tissues established by meristem carry the mutation.

Foreclosure opportunities viruses can not be done on the finding of non conservation form by cutting sheet.
When cuttings of leaves was de-differentiation of cells in the leaves that will rebuild a new meristem, often it is only very few homogeneous cells at the genetic level (and often also in viral load), which give a homogeneous meristem too, hence the loss of the cooler.
The fact that this character does not happen that division comes from the fact that we must keep a cooler meristem, which often occurs when a meristem divides itself into two.
A bit like keeping the variegated character of a plant by cuttings must necessarily stem cuttings variegated ...


Thank you to férréol for its precious explanations.


i have one white and green clone, and leaf cutting give only green plant, just divisions works.. same as spotty.

wow i want a spotty plant!!!!


daniel

Those are both plausible explanations, although I'm less inclined to believe the transposon bit than I would be the chloroplast bit. *disclaimer-- I am not a botanist* If it were a transposon jumping around the chromosome you would be able to propagate it through leaf cuttings because even if the actual transposition (leading to color changes) is an exceedingly rare event (only a few per millions of dividing precursor cells required to make a leaf), when you made a leaf cutting,all of the stem cells in the meristem which would produce a new plant would have the mutant active transposon. Those stem cells should produce a variegated plant. Of course there are plenty of exceptions to this rule that would depend on the biology of the transposon.

It may be more likely that you have two populations of chloroplasts. For anyone who doesn't know, chloroplasts (like mitochondria) have their own genome, and some really important genes can lie on these extragenomic bits of DNA. If one of the genes in the anthocyanin biosynthesis pathway lies in this DNA, and you have a mutation in it, that cell will then have two populations of chloroplasts, one which can make red, and one which can't. There's no reason for competitive inhibition between the two populations, as absence of anthrocyanin probably doesn't confer any fitness advantage or disadvantage. It makes sense then that during the millions of cell divisions that occur in the process of making a leaf, a few have asymmetric divisions in which one daughter cell gets only mutant chloroplasts. As the leaf continues to develop this cell continues to divide, producing a green spot. Leaf pullings probably fail because you have so few stem cells from the true meristem in a typical pulling that it's a homogeneous population. I would be willing to bet in fact that "strikes" are actually clonal populations from a single cell.

just a plausible made by a man that works in labs and know very well genetic ans biology.

I check if google translate corectly, i'm not sure, i can give you same text but in french and perhaps you know one better translater.

I'm sorry i try to understand all but i'm french, my english isn't very good and talk about génétic in english is very difficult for me, imagine you have to talk about vft genetic in french ^^

Don't worry about the language, it's a great contribution. I would not be able to talk genetics in french. I re-wrote some of it in my last post in simpler terms, mainly just to help me think about it, which doesn't have the problems from the translation.


Unfortunately it would be exceedingly difficult to distinguish between these different possibilities genetically unless you already knew what you were looking for specifically, and I don't think this is the case. Spotty would be very hard to test genetically. It would probably be really easy to test functionally though, jkochuni if you want people to believe it's not a virus all you really need to do is try infecting a typical VFT.