FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

Matt wrote:Yes, many of the plants are out of stock in the store and some of them are out of stock because we can't grow them to sale size quickly enough to keep them in stock.

To reinforce what Matt said, the great majority of our plants are very young, and it takes a long time for very young plants to grow to sale size. When a person buys a plant, they are also buying the many months of care that were required to grow that plant to sale size (and the space to grow them along with many thousands of others). At any one time, only a very small percentage of our plants are ready for sale; all of the others still require lots of love and care and attention, especially the young ones in tissue-culture or just out of tissue culture.

idontlikeforms wrote:Matt I've thought about things like this myself but as I didn't have a high paying job before I started my CP business I aimed all along to make it a full time operation. But I have also thought about keeping it simple and small and just trying to make enough to make ends meet and then spending the rest of my spare time with my family.

Yeah, it's hard to decide when and where to stop devoting time to "work" (although I think of it as fun right now) and start taking more time for yourself and your family.

idontlikeforms wrote:But I came to the conclusion that this would make my business vulnerable to competition because someone with more determination than me could copy a lot of the things I'm doing and then by virtue of economy of scale be able to put me out of business. So I decided the best route would be to grow the business as rapidly as possible and get it huge because then I would be safer and if I have the money to spare in the future and want more spare time I will then hire others to basically run it for me. Now don't misunderstand me I'm not subtly threatening to creep in on your niches in the market or anything, I'm just saying that others might eventually do this to your business.

I think that there will always be competition in any market where there is money to be made. And there seems to be an every increasing number of CP vendors appearing on the scene. I don't know if being bigger (and by bigger I'm guessing you mean more volume in sales?) makes you any less vulnerable to competition. I think in some ways it gives you an advantage, but that advantage is mostly in repeat business, right? I think as long as you make a good name for yourself, which you obviously have been working hard to do, you'll client base will keep building even if there is a lot of competition out there.

One huge advantage that Steve and I have is that we get a ton of traffic from the search engines. If you search for any Venus fly trap related search, FlytrapCare is nearly always on the first page. And even for the term "Venus fly trap" we rank #3 (after the images and videos are taken out):
http://www.google.com/search?q=venus+fly+trap
And terms like "how to care for a venus fly trap" we're top result:
http://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+c ... s+fly+trap
http://www.google.com/search?q=venus+fl ... +trap+care

That gives us a very steady stream of people coming to the site. Many of them join the forum and become regular members and customers. Other just pass through to the store and buy some plants. But the great thing is that as long as we rank that well in Google, that stream of traffic isn't going anywhere. And as long as we continue to sell quality plants and provide good customer service, I think that we'll continue to grow our customer base. For that reason, I'm not all that worried about competition or people creeping in on our niche. But I do see what you're saying and I agree that it's possible that it could happen.

idontlikeforms wrote:I have a number of other ideas in mind about expanding. Particularly I'm aimed mostly at growing Neps from seed. I sometimes spend 500.00 a month on Nep seeds and that is where much of my surplus cash gets dumped.

I think that's a good idea. Nepenthes can fetch a lot of money in the open market.

idontlikeforms wrote:But maybe someone else would be interested in buying yours and Steve's business in the future.

Oh, I wasn't insinuating that I was looking to sell it any time soon or even ever. I'm still having way too much fun! I was just saying that if I ever get to the point where I'm burned out or I feel like I can't dedicate enough time to it to keep up the good quality of plants and service that we strive so hard for, I'd have to seriously consider what to do and selling might be an option. But I've put countless hours of blood, sweat and tears into this site and store to get it to where it is today. It would probably kill me to let it go.

idontlikeforms wrote:You can make a lot at the June meeting. They get a lot of customers and they mostly come to buy not just look too. I won't be selling there. Sadly most of my spare inventory I can already sell online easily and since everything is in trays it makes little sense to pot everything up just to sell at one place instead of another. I'll keep you busy there though with VFT chatting during the lulls in your sales.

Hah, OK

idontlikeforms wrote:As for the July meeting people don't usually bring plants except for auction. Might want to ask CC if they could have things set up for you to vend there if that was your plan. Of course you may just be able to sell a lot at the auction too though. I doubt you'd get bids as high as Ebay though.

Yeah, the market on eBay is so much larger. I might try to sell in July too and if I do, I'll contact Peter to ask permission. But for now I'm just planning to come down and enjoy the trip.

idontlikeforms wrote:I see. Do you think the Dingley's would actually grow faster at this point if I just deflasked them?

They might. I don't really know how fast they're growing, but if you don't see noticeable growth after a week, I'd pull them out.

idontlikeforms wrote:It also helps if you feed them twice a month and then hold on to the larger specimens for longer, leting them get bigger and divide more.

Yeah, definitely. Regular feeding makes a huge difference. From what I can see of the plants in the photos on your eBay auctions, you've done an excellent job with the plants out of those flasks I sold you last July.

idontlikeforms wrote:How much longer do you think you're going to be willing to do all of this?

Well, I'm still having a lot of fun most days right now. And when I get tired or burned out, I take breaks even if there is a lot to do. A day or two of less intense work (like focusing on web work or something else) will renew my energy for TC work, repotting, shipping orders, etc. I'm very grateful and lucky to have Steve as a business partner. He makes it so that I can take time off when I need to and we don't have to take everything out of stock in the store.

And I've just started working on getting set up to sell locally here this summer. I think that with the number of unnamed clones I have growing right now, I should be able to sell a lot of plants at the farmer's markets and fairs (I've been accepted to sell at the Grants Pass Grower's Market, which I'm excited about). I have to produce a lot of seedlings to be able to pick out ones that are really special, which leaves me with a bunch of really, really nice plants but ones that I decide aren't worth naming and distributing. Anyway, I'm really just getting started with this adventure and have no intention of stopping any time soon.

idontlikeforms wrote:True but they need the roots when in full direct sun or they stall in their growth.

Right. I always grow under lights for a couple of months after deflasking to let them put down some roots and a bid of ex vitro growth before moving them to the greenhouses.

idontlikeforms wrote:Well they still turned out pretty well for me IMO anyways. I'm grateful. It's helped me pretty good so far.

OK, great

dantt99 wrote:

Matt wrote: If it came to that, I'd probably try to sell the FlytrapStore to someone with a strong desire to sell CPs for a living and that could see the incredible potential that lies in this website.

Matt, I sure hope it never comes to that! I honestly don't think that FTS would be FTS without You and Steve .

Hah, thanks Daniel. That statement was purely hypothetical. I have no intention of selling the FlytrapStore

Steve_D wrote:To reinforce what Matt said, the great majority of our plants are very young, and it takes a long time for very young plants to grow to sale size. When a person buys a plant, they are also buying the many months of care that were required to grow that plant to sale size (and the space to grow them along with many thousands of others). At any one time, only a very small percentage of our plants are ready for sale; all of the others still require lots of love and care and attention, especially the young ones in tissue-culture or just out of tissue culture.

Right, thanks for clarifying and explaining better what I meant there Steve.

Matt wrote:! I was just saying that if I ever get to the point where I'm burned out or I feel like I can't dedicate enough time to it to keep up the good quality of plants and service that we strive so hard for, I'd have to seriously consider what to do and selling might be an option.

Just to add to what Matt said, neither Matt nor myself depend upon FlytrapStore.com (and FlytrapCare.com). The success or failure of the Flytrap Store and related projects in no way influences the success or failure of our lives. Instead, those enterprises are entirely dependent on us. We both love these little monster plants and get a thrill growing them and sharing our interest and enthusiasm with others, as well as being able to provide a source for well-grown, nice, healthy Venus Flytraps, including some that would otherwise be difficult to obtain.

Matt may at some time decide he no longer wants to do this. I'm getting older and will one day probably decide that I want to retire for real, or may have to devote more time to myself and concerns that naturally come with aging.

But both Matt and myself very much enjoy what we're doing right now with the plants, the greenhouses, Matt with tissue culture, and both of us with FlytrapStore.com and Flytrapcare.com. We both contribute in our own way and have similar as well as complementary skill sets.

I'm not sure why I said all of that, but there it is!

We all hope you guys grow CP's for a long time. I'm retired, older than Steve but I still grow CP's

I just read this thread, and I must say I’m quite saddened by it.

I’m extremely disheartened to read a post that insinuates that I’m deceiving the buyer by the photos/auctions I post. I properly label all my plants, and do not rename them as some new variety. I also place a quarter in the photo so the buyer may know the exact size before purchasing. I would hope that anyone purchasing a variety/cultivar would take time to investigate it. X11 and most of the plants I sell can be found on the CP Photofinder…http://www.cpphotofinder.com/. In fact, I posted a link on the auction description to the X11 photo page on the CP Photofinder, which I do for most of my auctions.

I also do not sell plants that just came out of tissue culture. I take quite a bit of pride in the plants I sell as shown in my feedback. They are extremely well cared for, and are exceptionally healthy specimens. The B52 x Giant Form that I have posted for sale has been deflasked for about 3 months, and is a beautiful plant. If I have an interesting plant (‘Barbed Wire’ for instance) I would never post it for sale saying the cilia are barbed, unless it has proven itself to be stable.

With most of the clones I have posted for sale, I too had to purchase them smaller in size to build my collection. Most of my collection comes from Europe, which means (with currency conversions) I have spent quite a bit of money myself for each variety (not including the additional fees that come with importing plants). I would never call someone crazy for spending $100 dollars or more for a plant, unless I’m willing to call myself crazy. If you are looking to get a Dracula from Europe, you will most likely spend at least $100-200 dollars for a mature plant.

I’m not sure of the real reasoning behind some of the posts on this thread, but I do have my opinion, which I will respectfully keep to myself.

Well let me just start by saying that I don't mean to offend and I hope my advice is taken the way I Intend it to be taken.

jkochuni wrote:I just read this thread, and I must say I’m quite saddened by it.

I’m extremely disheartened to read a post that insinuates that I’m deceiving the buyer by the photos/auctions I post. I properly label all my plants, and do not rename them as some new variety. I also place a quarter in the photo so the buyer may know the exact size before purchasing. I would hope that anyone purchasing a variety/cultivar would take time to investigate it. X11 and most of the plants I sell can be found on the CP Photofinder…http://www.cpphotofinder.com/. In fact, I posted a link on the auction description to the X11 photo page on the CP Photofinder, which I do for most of my auctions.

If I understand what others are saying correctly, I don't think anyone has any issues with any of these known clones that you are selling. It's just the B52 x Giant Form that people are saying is misleading and I myself personally suspect that there is no deliberate intent on your part to deceive or mislead. So please understand that any criticism or advice I'm giving here is with this premise in mind.

jkochuni wrote: I also do not sell plants that just came out of tissue culture. I take quite a bit of pride in the plants I sell as shown in my feedback. They are extremely well cared for, and are exceptionally healthy specimens. The B52 x Giant Form that I have posted for sale has been deflasked for about 3 months, and is a beautiful plant. If I have an interesting plant (‘Barbed Wire’ for instance) I would never post it for sale saying the cilia are barbed, unless it has proven itself to be stable.

3 months not being just out of tissue culture is really a subjective statement. To one person that may be the case but to others, myself included, that is still pretty fresh. IMO, that is way to soon to objectively state that this plant is better looking than most others. I see in your listing that you comment on the color of it. I can tell you that my typicals typically have more color than the plant in your photo. I've deflasked a number of VFTs before and smaller specimens of B52s for example were fully red on the inside of their traps even just about 4 months out of the jar. They also had more yellowish leaf coloring, not unlike the B52 x Giant Form you're selling on Ebay now. The thing is that if a VFT is low in nitrogen and is given sufficient lighting it will color up like this. It will also have yellowish leaves, not richly green colored ones and it can turn red on the leaf spine and on the new traps unfolding too. Seeing this type of coloring in a VFT 3 months out of jar is not a true indicator of what it will look like when much larger and older. I think if you fed the plant in the photo for a couple of months you would see it turn greener and also have less red and that would be a normal phenomenon of VFT growing too.

Let me make another point. Suppose the winner of your current auction and theoretically other buyers of this same clone in the near future bought this plant and grew it out and it turns out to look little different than most typical VFTs. Don't you think they will feel like they have been misled? I mean how do you really know it will grow out and look like something spectacular when it is larger? I'm not making this point about the Dracula or X11 of course. People can see what the exact same genes can produce for those clones already.

I appreciate your feedback, and thanks. What makes B52 x Giant Form interesting is you do not know what it will become. The plant was advertised exactly as is, and I have labeled its name accordingly.

The same statement could be made with all red varieties out there today. Royal Red and Holland Red really don't appear different. Its really up to the individual to decide if it's worth paying extra for.

Jason, I totally agree with you. You labeled the plants very accurately, and putting in the quarter makes people see the exact size of the plants. I presume that you started the bidding below 15-20 dollars which is reasonable, so the fact that they were run up to over 100 has nothing to do with you.

I agree with everything that Joel wrote and his understanding and assessment of things is essentially the same as mine.

jkochuni wrote:I’m extremely disheartened to read a post that insinuates that I’m deceiving the buyer by the photos/auctions I post. I properly label all my plants, and do not rename them as some new variety.

Joel said it very well. I too don't believe that any deception was deliberate. And I know for certain you would never mislabel any plants.

jkochuni wrote:I would hope that anyone purchasing a variety/cultivar would take time to investigate it. X11 and most of the plants I sell can be found on the CP Photofinder

Unfortunately I don't think that the person who won the X11 did take the time to investigate it (I've been in contact with them). And, as was mentioned before, that is no fault of yours. We are each individually responsible for our own actions, and that person was responsible for bidding on a plant that they didn't research well.

jkochuni wrote:The B52 x Giant Form that I have posted for sale has been deflasked for about 3 months, and is a beautiful plant.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that. It certainly looks like a nice healthy "typical" flytrap to me. However, I think that most people are simply confused as to why a plant, which really is an unknown quatity at this point (and looks similar to hundreds of other flytraps I have on my grow rack right now), would be fetching such a high price on eBay. And personally, I question why it would even be put up for auction. Three months ex vitro, in my opinion, certainly isn't enough time to evaluate a clone to make any sort of determination as to whether or not it's sale worthy. And as to why someone would bid $100 on a plant that is a complete unknown is beyond my comprehension, but certainly not your fault. The entire plant still appears to be smaller than a quarter right now from what I can tell from the photos. Do you have any photos of adult plants of that particular clone? Have you grown it ex vitro for a full year to know what it's growth characteristics are? If not, I don't know how anyone could say that the plant is unique or more beautiful than any other "typical" flytrap and determine the value of it.

With Steve and I being in a similar position ourselves, my guess is that people trust and respect your opinion. And if you say that this is a nice enough plant to list and sell on eBay, then it must be worth quite a bit. If there is any deceit happening, it would only be implicit (not intentional) based on the fact that your opinion is quite valuable to many growers and evidently you chose this plant to sell because you think that it's special in some way. But in this case, I don't see how anyone, including you, knows what this plant will really turn out to be.

My main criticism for the listing is this: People trust and respect your opinion on these plants and listing a rather ordinary appearing clone (at least so far) for sale so soon without evaluating it fully means that people are basically bidding it up so high because they trust you. And you don't make it clear in the auction that what makes the plant interesting is that "you do not know what it will become" (as you said). Instead the auction says:

For auction is a new Venus Flytrap cross called 'B52 x Giant Form'. As the name indicates, this variety was produced by crossing the Venus Flytrap varieties 'B52' and 'Giant Form'. 'B52 x Giant Form' has very unique cilia, and maintains a reddish-orange coloration under sufficient light. 'B52 x Giant Form' is a very beautiful new cross that is simply stunning and unusual. Don't miss out on the opportunity to be the first person in the Unites States to own this new variety.

Those seem to be very clearly spelled out characteristics to me, not "you do not know what it will become" as you say here.

jkochuni wrote:What makes B52 x Giant Form interesting is you do not know what it will become.

That's true, but is is really worth $100+ to find out? You can buy 40 seeds for $10 and get that same opportunity 40 times over. That was the major point of this entire thread, I think. Bidding $100 on a tiny seedling that looks quite ordinary just seems like insanity to many (most) people.

And the price of this auction was bid up early on, which seems even more peculiar. In particular, there seem to be two bidders that regularly bid up the price on quite a few of your auctions very early on. One of them bids on many, many flytraps from many vendors on eBay (t**a) and is a regular FlytrapStore customer. The other (h**h) has some really odd bidding habits and is someone that bids on no one else's auctions. I wrote in a previous post:

Matt wrote: * bids a lot on homegrowncps auctions
* bids exclusively on homegrowncps auctions (all except one bid in the last 30 days)
* bids excessively high early on in the auctions
* rarely bids on the last day of the auctions
* has never won a homegrowncps' auction despite regularly bidding very, very high (up to and over $100)
* has 0% positive feedback with 91 feedbacks given

To me, that bidding behavior is very suspicious. Jason, have you tried contacting this particular bidder to verify that they're a real person? It may be worth looking into. If I saw that particular type of behavior on FlytrapStore eBay auctions, I certainly would be concerned.

idontlikeforms wrote:3 months not being just out of tissue culture is really a subjective statement. To one person that may be the case but to others, myself included, that is still pretty fresh. IMO, that is way to soon to objectively state that this plant is better looking than most others. I see in your listing that you comment on the color of it. I can tell you that my typicals typically have more color than the plant in your photo. I've deflasked a number of VFTs before and smaller specimens of B52s for example were fully red on the inside of their traps even just about 4 months out of the jar. They also had more yellowish leaf coloring, not unlike the B52 x Giant Form you're selling on Ebay now. The thing is that if a VFT is low in nitrogen and is given sufficient lighting it will color up like this. It will also have yellowish leaves, not richly green colored ones and it can turn red on the leaf spine and on the new traps unfolding too. Seeing this type of coloring in a VFT 3 months out of jar is not a true indicator of what it will look like when much larger and older. I think if you fed the plant in the photo for a couple of months you would see it turn greener and also have less red and that would be a normal phenomenon of VFT growing too.

I just want to echo what Joel wrote here. I too have deflasked perhaps 1500-2000 genetically unique flytraps over the last couple of years. The B52 x Giant Form seedling on eBay looks like the vast majority of them do 3 months out of TC growing under artificial lights.

jkochuni wrote:Royal Red and Holland Red really don't appear different.

I can certainly tell them apart (Holland Red has much longer leaves and longer cilia that are placed closer together than does Royal Red). But they're certainly not substantially different. Many of the red varieties do look quite similar and aren't easily distinguished. In fact, with many of the named flytrap clones out there, there are at least 2 or 3 other clones that look very similar with only subtle differences.

jkochuni wrote:I’m not sure of the real reasoning behind some of the posts on this thread, but I do have my opinion, which I will respectfully keep to myself.

I wish you would have elaborated more here on your opinion and which posts you're referring to, Jason. But I would guess that you're referring to some of my posts in this thread. And I'd also guess that your opinion is that I see you as competition and that I'm trying to put you in a bad light to keep down the competition. Those are just my guesses though. Honestly, I do see you as competition and perhaps that makes me more critical of your auctions than I would otherwise be. But I feel that everything I've written in this thread is honest and true (from my perspective) and my intent was not to paint a bad picture of you. I respect you and your tissue culture skills very much and I really do want to see you succeed. I feel like we both can succeed with our own carnivorous plant stores and perhaps even complement each other's inventory providing more options to carnivorous plant enthusiasts. And where our inventories overlap, I feel like that would benefit the carnivorous plant community as a whole because that will drive down prices to where more hobbyists can afford to buy the plants. I don't feel particularly threatened by you or any other carnivorous plant vendors and I really do want to see all of us succeed. I feel secure with what Steve and I have created together, having carved out a fairly secure selling space with our large online presence being fueled by traffic from search engines leading to many repeat customers through nice plants and excellent service.

What I'm expressing in this thread about this particular auction is just my opinion, nothing more. I honestly did feel absolutely horrible (sick to my stomach even) when I saw the auction price for this seedling over $100. None of the other auctions I've seen go for high prices have had the same effect on me because they have been for plants that are fairly well defined.

Matt-

If you are horribly sickened by the thought of seedlings selling for over $100 dollars I think you should consider not selling the Holland Red or Maroon Monster any longer. From what I can see both plants are almost exactly the same as Royal Red, Clayton’s Red Sunset and other red varieties. To say it has longer leaves and deeper color, is the same as saying a Red Dragon grown in direct light and shade are two different plants.

Since being on the board I have only tried to bring positivity with my posts, and comments. When someone contacts me from the board I do my best to answer any questions they might have, and I always treat them with the utmost respect. I have never been one to try and induce negativity with my comments, but I feel as of late this has been your course regarding my posts.

For example, I found it quite strange that you now grow Spotty after your public opposition to my Spotty post. I would think that someone in such extreme opposition to this variety (virus infected plant) would not want to risk exposure to his or her plant collection.

I also found it quite strange that you so admittedly ridiculed my posting of Dracula without having proper knowledge of what a mature Dracula plant looks like.

I could go on, but I find it quite ridiculous that I have to write this.

As with other plants for sale, I found a seedling that stood out from the rest of my tissue cultured plants, and I placed it for sale on Ebay labeled accordingly. I did not make any ridiculous claims about it being a better grower, larger in size or deeper in color. I simply stated the appearance as is.

Now that I have stated my opinion, I plan on going back to my positive self. Hopefully, Matt, you will as well.

I like to buy plants from three all of you and feel you all have something to offer that the other one may not.
I agree with the way all three of you go about doing things. I hope you guys learn that none of them is wrong only another way of going about selling plants. sometimes I want to buy a full size plant sometimes I don't want to wait for it to reach sell size and sometimes I want to buy a plant for $5.

Matt wrote: Frenzy is a good word for it

Note to self: name one of our Flytrap Store seedlings, chosen while blindfolded, FTS "Ebay Feeding Frenzy."

idontlikeforms wrote:though we may be in a recession, the CP hobby is expanding at a brisk pace

Seeds and plants are always popular during recessions. They are very cheap (except for the wild and speculative ebay auctions) and something a person can enjoy in his or her own home and garden, whereas any form of entertainment or activity away from home is always more expensive, whether it is just a restaurant, a movie, or a trip to Disney World.

idontlikeforms wrote:though we may be in a recession, the CP hobby is expanding at a brisk pace

Steve_D wrote: Seeds and plants are always popular during recessions. They are very cheap (except for the wild and speculative ebay auctions) and something a person can enjoy in his or her own home and garden, wheras any form of entertainment or activity away from home is always more expensive, whether it is just a restaurant, a movie, or a trip to Disney World.

Indeed. I've often wondered if the business of us CP nursery owners is not actually benefiting from the recession. I think some people are just intuitively looking at what they can buy that they can look at or do something with at home when they have less money to spare.

jkochuni wrote:Matt - If you are horribly sickened by the thought of seedlings selling for over $100 dollars I think you should consider not selling the Holland Red or Maroon Monster any longer.

Neither of those are mere "seedlings" that have only been out of tissue culture for 3 months. The plants we've been selling on eBay are large, mature, well-understood plants, not seedlings. Holland Red is an officially registered cultivar with well-defined growth characteristics. FTS Maroon Monster is from the 2008 FlytrapRanch seed mix and both Steve and I have been growing it for about 2 years and have determined it to be a superior clone, selected from several hundred other seedlings from the same year. It grows with exceptional vigor, which is unusual for a red clone, and has larger traps than even most large-trapped green clones. It really is an amazing clone and currently my favorite plant.

jkochuni wrote:From what I can see both plants are almost exactly the same as Royal Red, Clayton’s Red Sunset and other red varieties.

Royal Red is a nice clone and quite vigorous (for a red clone), but what makes it different than FTS Maroon Monster is that it has upright growth most of the season and doesn't get exceptionally large traps. Clayton's Red Sunset grows lower to the ground than does Royal Red, gets much redder than most other red varieties but is a fairly weak grower. While many of them look fairly similar, there is as much variety in the red clones as there is in the green ones. I'm not sure why all of the red varieties would be deemed as "almost exactly the same."

jkochuni wrote:To say it has longer leaves and deeper color, is the same as saying a Red Dragon grown in direct light and shade are two different plants.

No, that's not the same at all. The growth characteristics I write are from observing plants side-by-side over the course of a growing season and growing in good light, then taking note of what makes each of them different and unique. It is impossible to fully evaluate a clone growing in shade just as it is to evaluate one only 3 months out of tissue culture growing under fluorescent lights.

jkochuni wrote:I have never been one to try and induce negativity with my comments, but I feel as of late this has been your course regarding my posts.

I see. Would you mind providing me with links to the posts I've made that you've felt are negative? I don't recall being negative in my posts toward you or any other forum members. But if I was, I would like to know where I did so and perhaps prevent myself from coming across that way in the future because that was not my intent. I do, however, recall having been excited (here, here, and here) by some of your more recent posts of the "Barbed Wire" plant that you just deflasked and I even asked for more photos of the plant.

jkochuni wrote:For example, I found it quite strange that you now grow Spotty after your public opposition to my Spotty post. I would think that someone in such extreme opposition to this variety (virus infected plant) would not want to risk exposure to his or her plant collection.

I can explain that. I was sent a Spotty flytrap as a surprise gift (or a bad joke ) without asking for one. I had no intentions of ever acquiring one and was torn about what to do with it when I received it. I'm growing it for now, but I did consider destroying it (Steve sure did want me to). What I plan to do with the plant is attempt to infect other flytraps with the same virus that I think Spotty has to determine how serious of a risk the Spotty virus is to people's collections. There sure do seem to be a lot more "spotty" and "blotchy" flytraps appearing on the scene lately. By the way, have you deflasked any of the tissue from your Spotty cultures yet? Is the defining characteristic of Spotty stable through TC?

But I think you might be confusing me with Steve. I'm not as opposed to Spotty and the other variegated clones as Steve is. I'm just apprehensive of them is all and I want everyone to be informed that the variegation is most likely the result of a virus. I have stated that I didn't want to grow Spotty though, and I still don't want to add any more variegated clones to my collection until the seriousness of the virus is better understood.

jkochuni wrote:I also found it quite strange that you so admittedly ridiculed my posting of Dracula without having proper knowledge of what a mature Dracula plant looks like.

I don't recall ridiculing any posts of any users here on FlytrapCare. Can you provide a link to my post that you felt ridiculed by? I just re-read the Dracula thread that you started and I can't seem to find the ridiculing that you're referring to, but perhaps I'm overlooking it or not perceiving the posts in the same way. I do recall stating my opinion of Dracula. I've seen quite a few photos of adult Dracula flytraps and, while it looks nice, I'm just not all that impressed. That is just my opinion, nothing else. I have a similar opinion of the "Wally" clone that Joel mentions earlier in this thread, but I've never even seen (other than in photos) nor grown that plant. I have grown Dracula for over a year now and it seems to be a fairly slow grower. Granted, I only have one small plant with which to evaluate the clone (other than what I can see in photos), but it grows slower than most of the other clones I grow and I have several other plants raised from seed that have similar characteristics to Dracula, but are nicer plants. That's why I'm not too keen on Dracula. And again, this is just one person's opinion, not ridicule.

jkochuni wrote:I could go on, but I find it quite ridiculous that I have to write this.

What about it is ridiculous? I'm glad you did, but you don't have to write anything. In fact, it appears that you chose not to respond to some of the questions I posed and points I raised in my previous post that I would really like to hear your take on. I think that the main points I'm raising here in this thread are valid:

• People trust and respect your opinion on these plants and listing a rather ordinary appearing clone (at least so far) for sale so soon without evaluating it fully means that people are basically bidding it up so high because they trust your judgment of the plant. But the fact is that you don't know what the plant will turn out to be and that isn't made clear in the auction.
• There appears to be some really odd bidding happening on the B52 x Giant Form auction and nearly all other homegrowncps auctions by anonymous user h**h that should be looked into.

jkochuni wrote:Now that I have stated my opinion, I plan on going back to my positive self. Hopefully, Matt, you will as well.

I certainly don't feel like I'm being negative, but perhaps I am. And if I am, I'd like to know where you feel I do so, try to understand why it's negative, and prevent myself from being that way in the future. Please provide me with some links to examples of my negativity, perhaps with a description of why you think it's negative, so that I can better understand what I'm doing to be that way. From my perspective, I'm merely raising some valid points of concern and stating my opinion in a clear way and in a way that's open for discussion (not saying that I'm 100% right). I understand that you don't have the same opinion, but I'm not sure that makes my opinion "negative" or bad in some way.