FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

Hello friends!

So eventually my fiance and I are going to be moving into a house which means more space than my apartment which means more space to put plants in.

Currently all of the indoor plants are in my converted IKEA cabinet which I will still make use of for other plants, but for my nepenthes I'd like to give them spaces of their own, maybe a grow tent indoors or some large tank I can make a terrarium with. So far I think all of them are fine in the cabinet, as temps are within their ranges and humidity good, but I'd like to split up the lowlanders and highlanders/intermediates to cater to their preferred environments better.

My collection so far is:

N. aristolochioides x ventricosa x 3 or 4
N. 'Ventrata'
N. ramispina
N. naga x mira
N. ampullaria "Black Mircale" x 2
N. (mirabilis var. globosa x ampullaria) 'Super Squat' x rafflesiana var. alata
N. maxima (a wavy leaf clone)
N. robcantleyi x hamata 'Tambusisi'

The maxima, Ventrata, ampullarias and the complex lowlander hybrid I'd like to put outside during spring if I can give them good humidity doing so. Summer and fall are toss ups, as summers can get above 100 degrees Fahrenheit here and falls can potentially get a little chilly.

The rest I'm more concerned about giving them cooler nights, especially the robcantleyi x hamata 'Tambusisi'.

I was wonder what recommendations y'all have for growing nepenthes indoors. Currently all of the spaces we're looking at have little spots/spaces to put terrariums or grow tents or larger grow cabinets. One had a sun room that would have been fantastic to make into almost a greenhouse/green room, but my god for a rental it was a mishmash things that would require waaaaay too much updating for our liking.

alecStewart1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 4:32 pm I was wonder what recommendations y'all have for growing nepenthes indoors.

An incredibly difficult question to answer. It might be why you don't have many responses thus far.

Budget, space, time, location, and "do it yourself" limitations would be helpful to guide you. The challenges of Bozeman MT are very different from Tampa, FL. A budget of $100 is very different from a budget of $1,000. Having a spare closet is very different from having a greenhouse.

To compound this, you're asking for advice on highlanders and lowlanders, which have very different needs.

But, I'll see what I can do to help.

Your solutions need to be isolated between highlanders and lowlanders. Look at them differently. Two different setups.

Your first solution is space. You can set-up an entire grow room or greenhouse, if you have the space. But keep in mind that you'll need to heat and cool it, humidify it, and have grow lights running. The cost will increase quickly. Which is why few go this route. But go with the largest space you believe you can afford. Common options for space include grow tents. You can use them for highlanders or lowlanders. For lowlanders, large aquariums sometimes can work. Or larger IKEA grow cabinets. I've converted a lowes shelving unit into one, with some plywood and plexiglass. Works great for me. For highlanders, smaller spaces usually work best. You'll need to chill at night, and heat during the day. Chest freezers, or similar builds, usually are most popular. I've also seen some larger setups that utilize glycol chillers and fans. Very nice, but about 10-20x the price of a chest freezer build.

Hopefully that at least gets you started some.

specialkayme wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:20 pm Or larger IKEA grow cabinets. I've converted a lowes shelving unit into one, with some plywood and plexiglass. Works great for me. For highlanders, smaller spaces usually work best. You'll need to chill at night, and heat during the day. Chest freezers, or similar builds, usually are most popular. I've also seen some larger setups that utilize glycol chillers and fans. Very nice, but about 10-20x the price of a chest freezer build.

Hopefully that at least gets you started some.

I've been giving this some thought over the past couple of days.

So with the IKEA cabinet I have, I do keep some Drosera and a few pings in there. I wouldn't mind keeping those with the lowlanders, and having another cabinet for the highlanders and some plants like Drosera regia and Cephs who want cooler temps.

I guess my big question is how do I heat and cool the cabinets? For lowlanders they'd like 78-80 during the day and 70 at night. The highlanders would like 75 during the day and 62-64 during the night. Providing humidity isn't an issue, just temperature that I'm wondering about.

alecStewart1 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:10 pm I guess my big question is how do I heat and cool the cabinets?

Not to sound like a big behind here, but with heaters and coolers . . .

Again, much of this comes down to your location, budget, space, and "do it yourself" abilities. Keeping a zero insulated IKEA cabinet heated to 80 during the day in Nome, Alaska is going to be difficult, but "chilling" it down to 62 at night isn't. Meanwhile, heating it to 80 in Flagstaff, Arizona is a piece of cake, but chilling it down to 62 at night isn't.

Assuming you're in a fairly temperate region, heating shouldn't be much of an issue. Depending on the size of the space, the residual heat your lights put off, and what you set your thermostat to (assuming you're keeping them inside your living quarters) you may not need to heat at all during the day. But if you do, a small heater is fine. I've used a small "desk top" style one for years just fine. Or an electric plug in one works too. Greenhouses have dedicated electric/gas/oil heaters. Some more robust collections worry about power outages, so go with some kerosene heaters as either primary or backup.

But assuming you aren't in an extreme north region, cooling for highlanders is a challenge. But how far down south you are and what you set your thermostat to will determine what your options are. Dropping a few degrees can be done with a swamp cooler. More degrees than that, you'll probably need to look at one of those small room AC units (and deal with the drop in humidity as a result). Or run a glycol chiller through a heat exchanger. That works quite well. FWIW I haven't met anyone that used a peltier system well, other than for a shoebox size terrarium. I have seen more than a few successful chest freezer or wine cooler grows, of various sizes. But you won't be bringing a highland plant to vining and flowering in one of those. You'll notice a common theme with this: the options vary in price and size requirements. You can find a small AC unit for around $100 on FB marketplace, but you'll need more space for it to run than a chest freezer, but it will also give you more space to grow. You can build your own glycol chiller for around $150, if your "do it yourself" skills are good to go, but will run you around $1,000 if they aren't. There are also noise, residual heat, and electricity bill considerations to look into as well.

I think I can sort of outline an idea I have for all of this.

I live in the Southern United States and where I am can get to 105 degrees Fahrenheit during the summers.

During the day while at work, we'd likely set the thermostat for the house at 75 degrees Fahrenheit. This would mean during the day, the lowlander enclosure would need some heating device running at a low level to bump the heat up the enclosure some. Since it'd likely be another or the current IKEA cabinet, it won't be too big and won't need a ton of power to heat up such a small space. During the evenings/nights, I could turn off the heater and turn on whatever cooling device I have for the highlander enclosure. We'd probably drop the thermostat to 68 at nights, meaning the cooling device might have a little more work to do, but, again, since it's not a huge space the highlanders would be in the device likely wouldn't need a massive amount of power. During the day, I can turn the device off. Or, better yet, figure out how to put everything on timers.

Both would obviously have humidifiers and fans going to keep up humidity and provide some airflow. The humidifier for the highlanders would go up to get the 90-95% RH nighttime humidity, while lowlander one would stay the same. With the cabinet I have now, though, all I have to usually do is turn up the humidifier for about ten to fifteen minutes and completely close the cabinet doors, then quickly turn it back down and shut the cabinet doors again to get 90-95% RH at night.

So maybe I should start by finding some smaller heating/cooling devices, as well as figuring out how the layout of each cabinet would be.

In the future I would like a home with a large enough yard to put a green house in and save on power by putting solar panels on the roof of the house or even a couple small ones near the green house. One can dream...

alecStewart1 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:35 pm I think I can sort of outline an idea I have for all of this.

That's helpful.

So speaking of your lowlanders, look for a small heater like this: https://www.amazon.com/andily-Heater-El ... r=8-8&th=1
Hook it up to an inkbird temp controller (that has the wifi capability), like this:https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Temperat ... 112&sr=8-5
Keep in mind, inkbird has two models: the non-wifi, and the wifi models. The non-wifi model lets you set a temp and walk away. As long as it's running, that's the temp it will be set at. The wifi model has an app, and you can set programs from your phone or the web. I set mine to go to 76 degrees starting at 8am and running till 9pm, at 9pm I set it to 61 degrees. It will switch between "hot" and "cold" if you have the ability to program it that way.

For your lowlanders, I wouldn't worry about cooling. Set it to your day temp, and let it cool itself down naturally during the day. They should be fine.

For humidity, inkbird also offers a humidity controler, with wifi, that you can program as well: https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Controll ... hdGY&psc=1
Unfortunately, not all humidifiers will work with it. But this one should (unless they changed their design): https://www.amazon.com/WACOOL-Reptile-H ... tdGY&psc=1
As with the temp, you can set a "day" and "night" humidity setting. I put mine at 70% during the day, and 95% at night.

You can use the same setups for your highlander, but will need a cooling option. Which I walked you through above. You may want to experiment with whether you need to cool your highlanders at all though. Highlanders can enjoy a "range" of day to night temps, as much as they can enjoy a cool night temp. I've had a hamata growing for over 2 years, an eddy growing for almost 2 years, and a villosa growing for about 5 months without any cooling option. But YMMV.

Thank you! This is also a helpful discussion as I'm thinking of growing orchids, too.

specialkayme wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:48 pm You may want to experiment with whether you need to cool your highlanders at all though. Highlanders can enjoy a "range" of day to night temps, as much as they can enjoy a cool night temp. I've had a hamata growing for over 2 years, an eddy growing for almost 2 years, and a villosa growing for about 5 months without any cooling option. But YMMV.

True. I do give the plants the temperature range in my apartment, but who knows how expensive doing that would get in a house. The one two plants that are being stinkers for me right now are my N. (mirabilis var. globosa x ampullaria) 'Super Squat' x rafflesiana var. alata and N. aristolochioides x ventricosa.

The N. aristolochioides x ventricosa because I repotted it too many times, and the N. (mirabilis var. globosa x ampullaria) 'Super Squat' x rafflesiana var. alata (really need to figure out a short name for this one...) isn't putting out a ton of pitchers because I won't keep it at 80 degrees in my apartment. It did make a really tiny one that it was growing before it was shipped to me.

The only other plant I'd be worried about not cooling is the N. robcantleyi x hamata, as N. robcantleyi seems to want a pretty cool night time. But, like you said, I'll have to experiment.

alecStewart1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:33 pm The one two plants that are being stinkers for me right now are my N. (mirabilis var. globosa x ampullaria) 'Super Squat' x rafflesiana var. alata and N. aristolochioides x ventricosa.

Interesting. I've never found complex hybrids to be particularly picky. Their "desires" have a tendency of deviating particularly within each plant, and away from their parents, the more crosses that get introduced though.

Ventricosa is a very forgiving parent. I've seen it growing in trashcans as forgotten patio plants. I'm surprised it's your picky one.

alecStewart1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:33 pmthe N. (mirabilis var. globosa x ampullaria) 'Super Squat' x rafflesiana var. alata (really need to figure out a short name for this one...) isn't putting out a ton of pitchers because I won't keep it at 80 degrees in my apartment.

I have NEVER found temperature to be a factor in pitcher production.

Not counting disturbing the rootzone, or otherwise putting the plant in shock, more often than not, it's light. If it's getting too little light, it doesn't need to eat as much, so will stop pitcher production. Giving it more light is the equivalent of giving you some steroids, the growth genes get activated, requiring more food. In this case, pitcher production. In a few, very rare circumstances, I've seen too much light cause pitchering issues, but usually the plant starts blushing and burning before that, and the pitchers are killed off (or stopped) due to stress.

In the circumstances it isn't light, it's humidity. A nepenthes will sometimes not pitcher if it doesn't have enough excess moisture to feed the pitchers with digestive enzymes. But, at least in my opinion, this is only about 5-10% of the time.

I've tried to grow some real lowlanders, like bical, unsuccessfully. It wasn't warm enough for them. But in those instances, it's leaves died back (not just the pitchers) and it was done.

Check your lighting.

alecStewart1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:33 pmThe only other plant I'd be worried about not cooling is the N. robcantleyi x hamata, as N. robcantleyi seems to want a pretty cool night time. But, like you said, I'll have to experiment.

If you're southeastern US, you should be fine.

You'll have some variation between plants, but as a general rule robcantleyi x hamata will go for night temps with a range somewhere between 52 degrees and 66 degrees. https://tomscarnivores.com/resources/ne ... ive-guide/ That's not to say if it sits at 68 degrees the plant is dead. But it may stress out a little, grow slower, and be a little less happy. You can also get away with ideal temperatures in that range for part of the year. Which, in the SE US, you'll be just fine.

The hamata is "supposed" to like night temps in the 48-66 degree range. In the summer I give the hamata 72 degree nights fairly regularly. You can tell it isn't happy, pitchers fine but is sluggish. Come winter time it'll get 60 degree nights, and it takes off. Hybrids are usually more vigorous than the parents, and if hamata (which prefers 48-66 degree range for night) and robcantleyi (which prefers 55-65 degree range for night) can survive, the hybrid between the two usually provides a broader range than the sum of it's parents, meaning more likely than not, a <70ish degree night should be fine. Which, I imagine your home in the SE US will get 8-10 or so months out of the year.

specialkayme wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:18 pm Interesting. I've never found complex hybrids to be particularly picky. Their "desires" have a tendency of deviating particularly within each plant, and away from their parents, the more crosses that get introduced though.

Ventricosa is a very forgiving parent. I've seen it growing in trashcans as forgotten patio plants. I'm surprised it's your picky one.

I made the mistake of repotting that hybrid waaaaaay too much due to me being paranoid of root rot and space for roots. I think over the course of like 3-4 months I repotted it 3 times. I took it from a smaller pot to a slightly bigger pot, to an even bigger pot that I could not keep the medium moist enough without excessive top watering, back to more medium sized pot. It has several basal growths that it's been growing out for a bit. I also mistakenly didn't water it enough a few times (the medium was getting too dry and leaves were yellowing and blackening), but now the medium stays that the right moisture. So I can understand why it's pouting.

specialkayme wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:18 pm Check your lighting.

I will say that the lighting was more shaded due to me putting plants on the second bottom shelf, but I moved a few to the top shelf and now the bottom of the shelf where my neps are is getting more light than before. The complex lowlander hybrid has some red leaves and a newer leaf that's blushing that is also slowly making another pitcher. It is also growing another leaf sticking straight up out of the middle that's just starting to split open to grow that leaf out and also let another leaf grow.
Daytime humidity is usually 70-80%.

To give you an idea of how the layout of the cabinet is:

Top of cabinet - 4 t5 lights
Top most shelf - Drosera, pings
Under top most shelf - 4 more t5 lights
Second shelf - just a bigger pot with my Drosera regia
Bottom of cabinet - Neps, the Cephalotus that's starting to recover from repotting, the humidifier

I'll have to post a picture at some point.

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Bottom of cabinet - Neps, the Cephalotus that's starting to recover from repotting, the humidifier

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Which humidifier do you use? I had tried a couple different ones but it seems I could not use the ones that have their own filters as distilled water clogs them up.

andynorth wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:21 am Which humidifier do you use? I had tried a couple different ones but it seems I could not use the ones that have their own filters as distilled water clogs them up.

It's very unsophisticated. It's a $40 one I got from CVS. Admittedly, I think I should get something smaller or figure out a setup that uses a hydrofogger that you would use for reptile enclosures. Fungus gnats for some reason have a tendency to drown themselves in the humidifier I have, for some reason...

So it does not use any filters? I really like the mini rechargeable USB ones but they all use filters and you can not use distilled water with them as it clogs them. You would think it would be the other way but it is not, as I found out after using it.

andynorth wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 3:55 pm So it does not use any filters? I really like the mini rechargeable USB ones but they all use filters and you can not use distilled water with them as it clogs them. You would think it would be the other way but it is not, as I found out after using it.

Are you sure it's getting clogged?

There isn't anything in distilled water other than, well, water. So there isn't anything to clog it.

Distilled water can sometimes "break down" items that sit in it though. Some plastics, heavy metals, and some organic substances, in particular. So it's possible the distilled water is breaking down the filter mechanism.

That humidifier is likely the exception, rather than the rule though. Most humidifiers require that you only use distilled water.

Trust me, I have beat myself up trying to figure that one out myself. However, the majority of the ones that use a wick type filter specifically say not to use distilled water. Me being me, I used it any how. A week later the thing stopped working. I tried replacing the filter and no luck. Ordered another, same thing. So I bought one that does not have a filter and it works fine. I wanted the USB rechargeable one so I could place near my plants in the summer and not need an extension cord.

@specialkayme so, question. I'm having a hard time finding something a little more compact to cool off a cabinet. I looked at the InkBird devices and they look promising. For cooling, all I could find where people tinkering with minifridges and that sounds like a lot of work, and I also found this but who knows if that actually works as advertised.

I also found that some people put frozen water bottles in their terrariums to drop the night time temp. Is that really all that effective? Here's the IKEA cabinet I have, by the way.