FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

Ok, I have been lurking around the site for a while now, and It's about time I signed up to actually interact. I find forums are the easiest/most complete source of information on very specific topics. However, after surfing around this site, and other terrarium minded sites, I could not find the specific information I was looking for.

I have a vision: That vision is growing a VFT indoors, in my crappy little apartment. I have resolved to use a 1gallon jar as my terrarium to host my VFT, but I had trouble with getting enough light for it last time I tried without artificial lighting... Too hot in the sun, to dark without it. So it's time to up the ante. I want to use LED lighting to prevent the very small 1gallon enclosure from becoming too hot, and also to save on some bucks in the long run.

Ideally, I want the LED to be small enough to build it into the lid of the jar. That way I can open the jar to feed it, or trim things, or whatever needs to be done. Also, for dormancy, I can remove the light lid, and place a regular lid on it for overwintering storage (fridge, most likely.)
I wish I could draw up a diagram for you guys.. maybe I will later.

After looking around for a bit online and elsewhere, I found this little guy: http://store.earthled.com/products/eart ... RK7r0r3j5g
It's not nearly as large or costly as one of those square panels, but it's cheaper, and looks like it could work for my application.
From what ya'll know about LED lighting in general, could this work? (remember, 1 plant only.)

My questions to you are:
would the humidity get too high inside the jar, and damage the light/fixture? What type of fixture would I need for something like this? Is there a DIY guide to building LED lighting structures (like soldering instructions, light type, et cetera?)

I know a lot of you are going to try and talk me out of this whole idea, but let me just say: don't waste your time. I want to do this, and will do it regardless If you think the LED type system I have outlined would not be feasible at all, is it possible to do with a CFL? would a CFL get too hot in there? Again with the waterproofing? Necessary?

Sorry for the long-winded post, but any help you could offer would be awesome. Thanks.

Post Script: Also, if there is a cheaper alternative to the light I posted, that information would be excellent to have.

Edit: LEDs are also favorable because then I wouldn't need to add reflectors or anything to the top of the jar.

Thanks so much!

Hey, welcome!

I think that light would be strong enough for a single plat at about 5'or so, but 1w leds can become rather warm, especially in a closed space, so i would recommend some aitflow (also to decrease humidity).

60% humidity is fine in general, above 80% the chance of getting mold gets quite high (especially without airflow).

So i see no problems, other then that of sufficient ventilation.

Excellent. Thanks for your reply.
I thought one of the main draws for LED lights was that they didn't get that hot?? Would having them be similar to having a CFL bulb in there? Or would it be an advantage at all?
Because if there is little difference, I will opt for the MUCH cheaper CFL bulb.

Would a CFL bulb be better anyway? Or would it get too hot?

Edit: Also, there is an abundance of chinese knockoffs available on ebay and other sources. For a fraction of the cost $10 vs $50... It might be worth just getting one of them and trying it out.
I've read some people saying they worry about the cheap chinese ones breaking early... but at 1/5th the cost, I can replace it every other year, and still break even with what I would have spent for a 10 year EarthLED. (just a thought.) Someone out there must have tried one of these things, right?

My solution would be to ditch the gallon jar and let the poor thing get natural sunlight. VFT's don't need high humidity to survive and thrive. As long as you keep your plants soil moist with low TDS water, give it plenty of direct sunlight, and let it have a three month dormant period your plant will be fine. Alot of forum members grow their VFT's outside in places that have very little humidity, like Arizona and Utah, without any problems at all. Your flytrap will like a nice deep pot on a sunny south facing window sill much better than a gallon jar and if you dont have a sunny window sill, it being in a nice deep pot under your LED light would work as well.

nimrod337 wrote:Excellent. Thanks for your reply.
I thought one of the main draws for LED lights was that they didn't get that hot?? Would having them be similar to having a CFL bulb in there? Or would it be an advantage at all?
Because if there is little difference, I will opt for the MUCH cheaper CFL bulb.

Would a CFL bulb be better anyway? Or would it get too hot?

Edit: Also, there is an abundance of chinese knockoffs available on ebay and other sources. For a fraction of the cost $10 vs $50... It might be worth just getting one of them and trying it out.
I've read some people saying they worry about the cheap chinese ones breaking early... but at 1/5th the cost, I can replace it every other year, and still break even with what I would have spent for a 10 year EarthLED. (just a thought.) Someone out there must have tried one of these things, right?

Well, compared to a CFL it will be much cooler, but it will still heat up a fair amount in a closed space, i have one of those knockoffs myself (4w version).
And i have it under my alicia (3 adult plants in 1 pot) at bout 1-2 inch.
A week after i put it under there, it started to flower, so for my its not that usefull (because of the mainly red light), but i'd use at least a 2 bulbs, 1 red/blue and one white to maintain the whole spectrum, plus, blue/red is seen as purple, and i dont like the look of that collour on my plants

markus13 wrote:My solution would be to ditch the gallon jar and let the poor thing get natural sunlight. VFT's don't need high humidity to survive and thrive. As long as you keep your plants soil moist with low TDS water, give it plenty of direct sunlight, and let it have a three month dormant period your plant will be fine. Alot of forum members grow their VFT's outside in places that have very little humidity, like Arizona and Utah, without any problems at all. Your flytrap will like a nice deep pot on a sunny south facing window sill much better than a gallon jar and if you dont have a sunny window sill, it being in a nice deep pot under your LED light would work as well.

I knew there would be some opposition to the idea of keeping a VFT in a terrarium, and I appreciate your advice. But like I said earlier, I am going to grow one in a jar... If I can't make it work, well.. That will be much like some of my previous attempts to keep plants alive. I will however attempt to keep one on my south window in a deep pot IN ADDITION to my terrarium experiment. One of the greatest experiences in my horticultural hobby life was feeding random insects to my previous VFT (also in a jar, without suplemental light) And watching the drama unfold of an unsuspecting insect from the north, stumbling into the open mouth of a carnivorous plant. MUahahahah!
Also, I LOVE terrariums. I am facinated with the idea of a self/semi-self sustaining ecosystem. I kept a fern alive in a sealed jar for 3 years, until I moved, and accidentally left it in the direct sun for a day.. Oops!

Sander: thank you for chiming in about your experience with knockoff LED lights. I think most of those light systems are being purchased by people who grow "special" plants in their closet. Flowering is an important part of that market. So I wonder if I can get one that is all, or mostly blue... I have read though that red light helps VFTs get nice red color on them, and I love the look of the red mouths.
Two bulbs is out of the question, as I cannot possibly fit two bulbs inside one jar. So my biggest concern is the heat. Is 16 hours of continuous light from LED bulbs going to be too much? Would ventilating the jar for an hour at lunch be enough to dissipate the heat buildup?

What do you think the minium wattage would be for a single VFT?

Thank you all for your responses thus far. I love communities of like-minded plant folk.

HI nimrod337,

Posting a picture or drawing of your growing idea will help the folks here give you some advice. Are you using an actual terrarium or a jar? I have had great success with LEDs and 100% using it in all my setup. I grow my plants in the basement as Calgary's weather can be brutal to my plants. I also have Aquascapes and planted aquariums and I use LED on all of them. What if you purchase at least a 3 watt LED spotlight and place it outside your terrarium? You should have no issues with heat then. Introducing VFTs to direct sunlight right away will burn it's leaves, I have seen that they are sensitive with light fluctuation that's why I just use artificial lighting. But it all depends on your location and preference. What's important is that you have fun while growing these beauties.

hb

Well, i can add my led lamp to a closed container, but it is made up of low wattage leds, so i cant compare it to your setup. But for a single plant 15w at close range should be more then enough.
Ive been thinking about a terarrium for my plants in winter, so this are some thingd i already thought about

Ok... I am going to try an put an image in here for you guys to see what I have in mind... Cross your fingers.



did it work?
WHOOOOO! got it.

Yes, I will be using a jar (possibly a used pickle jar)
The terminology used with LED lights is quite a bit confusing for me to follow. Some LEDs claim to be "1W" LEDs, but the whole bulb then is 14W, because there is 14 LEDs in the bulbs? But then there are other LEDs that claim to be 3W LEDs, but don't have a total for the whole bulb... So I get a bit confused when I am trying to directly compare two different options.

Also, it seems that most LED lights contain red/blue mixes, but it seems to be 4:1 in favor of red... Do I really want that ratio for VFTs? The flower is really not the cool part of the plant, so would an all blue light be better? Or even a straight up white LED?

Then there's this nomenclature I found when surfing for other options:
Light Intensity:
White: HR16-24C/DW 13,000 mcd
Warm White: HR16-24WW 10,000 mcd
Red: HR16-24R 4,000 mcd
Orange: HR16-24Y 4,000 mcd
Green: HR16-24G 10,000 mcd
Blue: HR16-24B 4,000 mcd

I'm not even sure how to get started on decoding that jumble.

Is there a list of brands that have been tried and confirmed for use on growing indoor plants? Or is this still a little like the wild west of indoor cultivation?

Thanks again.

Well, ya its the wil wil west, some ppl report great results others report no results.

Truth is if u are going for blue and red leds, id favor blue over red (10:5) for vegetative growth.
As for wavelength, look up the absorbtion spectrum of chlorophyll a dn b. Those are the main chloroplasts. Look at absorbtion peak and u want leds with that colour.

As for white, it will work, but energy will be used less effeciently although they get a broader range.

Since i only have 1 led lamp and few plants i can not test anything.
But white will work but per watt less PAR is used then with a watt of the apropriate blue.

That setup will burn the VFT, it will get to warm even with ventilated holes. Leave the LED light outside and still drill some holes for air exchange. I have tested all sorts of light mix and I have learned that VFTs and other CPs respond great to full spectrum instead of dual/tri/quad band light mix. My suggestion would be to get a 2.5 gallong aquarium with glass top so you can add more decors later. That's a fun project.

hb

Is the bulb of the LED where the heat comes from? Or is it the metal enclosure that powers the lights. Could I just raise the bulb, so that it is out of the jar, and just the tip of the light would be inside? That way the heat can dissipate from the fixture on the outside of the jar?
This might make the bulb too far away to help the plant... But I could just find a shorter wider bottle to make up for that difference.

I'm going to try this whether you guys think it'll work or not, don't try and stop me!!!

figure out a way to put a drainage hole in it, and you'll want a lot of soil (deep).... flytrap roots grow straight down.

Ok, after examining some LED lights in the hardware store, I have finally softened my view on putting the bulb IN the jar. But I still want this to work, so I got a test bulb:

Ecosmart: LED
Daylight flood PAR20
8Watt (50W equivalent)
490 lumens
5000K color

I attached a lamp socket to the bottle, hardwired it with half of an extension cord.
Rigged up the socket to the Jar lid with erector set style construction.
Cut a hole in the lid of the jar the size of the bulb head.
assembled it, coated all wiring and sharp edges with electrical tape.
screwed on the lid, and BAM! Light's been on for an hour.







The plan is to leave the light on for 12-16 hours, and measure the internal temp of the jar. What is the maximum temperature I should look for to keep a VFT happy?