FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

No fly will be too big for those chompers! lol
(Well, no regular fly ;P)

Matt, I'm just saying in the future someday

Those are huge traps!

Matt wrote:And how would Steve and I know where to fix the price for this plant? Inevitably the first few plants will sell for a very, very high price. I don't know what it will be, but I doubt that if we set the fixed price anywhere near the first winning auction price that you'd still be willing to buy a plant.

I really didn't mean this as an insult, I just feel that the Ebay auction is kind of out of the FTS normal sales and it seems like a side thing, I have no doubt the prices of every plant listed on Ebay will eventually simmer down. Sorry, I really am. I'm just have a very hard time following the -- Price it high because its new and everyone likes something new. I really don't mean this as insulting. It's like when a car company makes 4 versions of a car, ramps up the price because you get a few extra gadgets or something, and people go for it. I'm not saying its identical, in my opinion I think that these plants get a little high in their price.

However Matt I could be wrong on some fronts like.

The plants are priced very high because everyone sees something new and has to have it.

A more experienced grower would like to buy this plant for a way of income if they Tissue culture it or w/e, and FTS would just like to give those people a bit of a head start. (this is something I hadn't consider before)

The plants really are so great, and so unique, the price being at auction, or when they come into the store is realistic to that of quality in other plants, sold for less money.


Don't take this the wrong way, but I feel the way you responded to my simple opinion, (or inquiry if you like) was directed in a mean way, when I really was just wondering. I don't feel I have been rash in any of my posts, and if I have offended you, I must stress how much I meant absolutely no harm. I think the way you answered my questions was a little directed at how not-seriously you would take what I have to say in a simple inquiry. For all you know I would buy one or most of your plants, after all most of my latest purchases, (of any type of product) have been yours plants, your products, or advice and tools related to yours and Steve's products.

If you feel I was the one to invoke you in this way, or that you feel you weren't speaking with at least a tinge or rudeness -- let me know. I can missinterept easily, which is likely because we are simply typing, and about plants for goodness sake.

Thanks Matt.

David F wrote:I really didn't mean this as an insult

And I certainly didn't take it as one.

David F wrote:I'm just have a very hard time following the -- Price it high because its new and everyone likes something new.

That's the beauty of eBay. We don't have to price it at all. We let the market demand determine the price.

David F wrote:The plants are priced very high because everyone sees something new and has to have it.

But we _aren't_ pricing the plants high. People are bidding whatever they're willing to pay. We do not control the sale price of the plant.

David F wrote:Don't take this the wrong way, but I feel the way you responded to my simple opinion, (or inquiry if you like) was directed in a mean way

I apologize if it came across that way. I didn't intend it to. I was just responding to your opinion and statement about fairness with a rebuttal with why it may not be fair to do it the way you think it should be done. What specifically did I say that you felt was mean?

David F wrote:For all you know I would buy one or most of your plants, after all most of my latest purchases, (of any type of product) have been yours plants, your products, or advice and tools related to yours and Steve's products.

Right. I certainly didn't intend to upset you with my post, but I obviously did, so I apologize. I would really like to know what I said that came across in a way that you felt was mean or insulting. I certainly didn't intend it to be in any way. I was just responding to your inquiry with what I thought was a different perspective.

I agree with you about not really understanding the "price it high because it's new" ideology. I was really into technology (specifically computers) for many years. I'm the type of person that waits and waits for prices to come down before buying. But high prices on new stuff is just the way of things and if you want the new stuff, you know up front that you're going to have to pay for it (and I have a few times -- spent $300 on my first DVD burner which now sell for a few dollars). And those initially high prices pay for all of the research and development that goes into making that product (in the case of electronics). Of course it's different with flytraps, but there are some similarities. Steve and I have to spend a lot of time growing out different flytraps in order to evaluate them for worthiness of naming and distributing. Once one "makes the cut" (per se), then the process of establishing it in tissue culture (not an easy feat that anyone can do), propagating it, growing out all of the tissue culture clones and getting them ready for sale, takes many months of hard work. So in order to make up for all of the time, materials, space and effort involved in getting that first plant ready to sell, we have to determine a price. Well, the easiest way for us to determine a price is in the open market where people can place bids however high they want to in order to win the plant. Once market demand stabilizes a bit and we have a large enough supply of plants, we can and will fix the price for the plant. But this process takes many, many months and sometimes years. If you're not willing to fork out the money for one early on when they're offered and in limited quantities, then I think you should understand that there are people who will and just wait patiently and quietly until the price comes down to something that you're willing to pay

David F wrote:If you feel I was the one to invoke you in this way, or that you feel you weren't speaking with at least a tinge or rudeness -- let me know. I can missinterept easily, which is likely because we are simply typing, and about plants for goodness sake.

I do think you must have misinterpreted my tone in the previous post, because I didn't intend any rudeness or abrasiveness. I felt I was just replying to your posted opinion and inquiry, but I do really want to know what words came across in my post as harsh or mean and I'll try not to use that tone in future posts.

Matt wrote:

BenWilliam wrote:Unfortunately, I think I'll be waiting until FTS offer them in sterile culture

Well, that could be sooner than they're available for sale here. I'll likely have some cultures that I could sell in the store within a few months.

Thats fantastic news! I shall wait with eager anticipation, thanks Matt.

Cool Matt, nice super long responce that clears things up. If you didn't mean anything in a rude way, than I don't need to point anything out to you. I find it hard to interperet people when not face to face, which is why I usually don't like things such as Face Book, Twitter, Texting, long conversations on the phone, and other things that don't allow me to pick up on certain cues.

I also apologize, I do understand how the prices work, the points I was trying to come across is in the store to how you would "let" the prices get so high (I guess) but it is completely out of your control, so I say lets just not worry about it anymore, fighting with people online is stupid. I was mostly wrong, and you are mostly right.

Thanks for the explanation.Cool beans!

A few more things I would like to say, since my opinion has changed slightly. In part because of the products I just saw listed in the Ebay Auctions, the Bohemian Garnet, Czech Giant, etc. These are plants well known to the flytrap world, and now you can view exactly what you are getting and determine how much you are going to pay.

I think this new auction is going to give the buyers a better idea of the range of prices, I think it is interesting you used Czech giants, you guys are really trying to get rid of those huh? Unfortunetely mine are still recovering from a hail storm a while back (the most violent and short one I've ever seen)

I think I might try out these Ebay auctions (that is if my dad lets me) and Matt has changed my opinion slightly. I'm glad I put out my voice though since now I can feel better about it.

Also kind of random but, how fresh are the FTS seeds, are they still from 2009, and if they are will there be any significant problems with the rate of germinations being a couple years old?

David F wrote:Also kind of random but, how fresh are the FTS seeds, are they still from 2009

No. We haven't sold any 2009 seeds since the last harvest, in June of 2010. Right now we're still selling that 2010 harvest of Dionaea seeds, which still have a high germination rate of I'd guess about 70% (I'm germinating some right now), but we've also begun to harvest this year's new crop of seeds, and the 2011 harvest looks like it will be a very nice one with lots of nice Flytrap clones contributing the pollen and seeds. No special mixes unless Matt makes some (I haven't had time with the busy schedule down here at "Flytrap Store South" in New Mexico), but the regular mix of seeds should produce some really nice and interesting Venus Flytraps.

This year's seeds should start selling at FlytrapStore.com sometime late this month or early July, when most of the harvest has been completed. As soon as the new seeds begin to be sold, the older harvest seeds will be reserved for contributions to seed banks such as the International Carnivorous Plant Society Seed Bank, and possibly for some free offers or as free extras in orders, etc.

Thanks for bringing up the subject, David, and for expressing your thoughts about other subjects in this discussion.

I'm germination about 12 types of drosera right now, so in all the madness, I figure I might try my hand at Dionaea and see if I get anything interesting! Thanks for answering, it is so interesting for me to think that out of all the plants, not only is the fly trap, well the fly trap (eats bugs and whatnot) but it is also so diverse, I would have never guessed there would be so many interesting and strange version of one species of an already completely unique plant.

In one species, maybe besides humans is there really that much variation in any other living species in the world? After all you don't see trees that grow deformed leaves that are completely different from other trees of the same species (or at least I think you don't)

Anyways I'll probably be buying the old and the new seeds to see what traps I can get, I think all the cultivars are great, but a bunch of unique flytraps raised by onesself seems pretty rewarding and awesome. PLus I have many eager years ahead of me, and I don't have to wait till I"m almost dead to see a bunch of babies reach full size!

David F wrote:A few more things I would like to say, since my opinion has changed slightly. In part because of the products I just saw listed in the Ebay Auctions, the Bohemian Garnet, Czech Giant, etc. These are plants well known to the flytrap world, and now you can view exactly what you are getting and determine how much you are going to pay.

Right, that's the huge advantage of selling on eBay. I have a lot of plants that aren't sale size yet for the size of plants we sell in the FlytrapStore. And as delayed as our spring was the last two years here (about 7 or 8 weeks behind!!!) the MAJORITY of the plants I have are still small. I can't sell them in the store, so we've decided to start listing them on eBay so that people can bid exactly however much they want to pay for some baby flytraps. We may create similar fixed-price products in the store or the FTS exclusive at some point, but for now eBay works well for getting rid of plants and not surprising customers that are expecting something larger than what they get.

David F wrote:I'm glad I put out my voice though since now I can feel better about it.

I'm glad you did too

Steve_D wrote:No special mixes unless Matt makes some (I haven't had time with the busy schedule down here at "Flytrap Store South" in New Mexico), but the regular mix of seeds should produce some really nice and interesting Venus Flytraps.

I plan on testing the waters with a few special mixes. I'm planning on offering B52 x B52, Fused Tooth x Fused Tooth and the Special Red Mix like we had last year.

Do you guys pollinate the VFTs, or do you let nature do it in certain circumstance? Honestly I'd rather not have anything that is its own parent (self pollination) I know enough about genetics, that the general rule of thumb is the offspring will be weak and exhibit recessive traits. But on the same note, charles darwin cross breed his pigeons and strengthned certain desired traits. So maybe I will?

Does anyone know the effects of self polination on VFTs what the babies look like and how much they reflect the parents.

I think the red mix would be awesome!

David F wrote:Do you guys pollinate the VFTs

Yes, and with thousands of blossoms, that's quite a task, as is harvesting all the seeds because they need to be harvested within a day or two of the pod maturing, or they may drop to the ground in a dry environment or be shaken loose by the wind. Regarding self- and cross-pollination, almost all of the pollination I do with Dionaea here at Flytrap Store South (New Mexico) is cross-pollination, with only a small percentage of self-pollination. I purposely try to make crosses that I think are interesting, which makes the process even more time consuming but ultimately (hopefully) worthwhile regarding the results it can potentially produce.

Anyway, I have pretty high expectations for this years Dionaea seed harvest. Like wine, some years are better than others. The 2008 seed harvest produced some unusually nice plants. 2009 introduced lots of B52 pollen and seeds, 2010 had lots of newer VFT clones, and the current 2011 harvest has a wide mix of some of the best older and newer Flytrap clones, and some exclusive and fairly rare ones too, such as our own FTS Maroon Monster, which is contributing both pollen and seed, the WIP family of Flytraps exclusive to the Flytrap Store at this point, and Grun, an all-green heterodoxa variety of Dionaea like Justina Davis, but with larger traps and a neater, more prostrate growing habit.

The seed harvest is looking great this year.

Steve_D wrote:Regarding self- and cross-pollination, almost all of the pollination I do with Dionaea here at Flytrap Store South (New Mexico) is cross-pollination, with only a small percentage of self-pollination.

Similarly here at Flytrap Store North in Oregon, I try to cross-pollinate most flowers. Sometimes it isn't possible depending on what's open at the same time (Red Piranha seems to be one of the last clones to flower, so it usually gets self-pollinated).

Steve_D wrote:The 2008 seed harvest produced some unusually nice plants.

2008 was the best!

Steve_D wrote:2009 introduced lots of B52 pollen and seeds

Right. There isn't as much variety in the 2009 FlytrapRanch seed mix. Just a lot of large trapped plants.

Steve_D wrote:2010 had lots of newer VFT clones

I still don't know what the 2010 seed mix holds really. I didn't have time to flask any yet, but I'll probably do a few sometime soon with the remaining seed harvest after we start selling the 2011 seed mix.

Steve_D wrote:WIP family of Flytraps exclusive to the Flytrap Store at this point

I've been impressed with the size of the traps on the WIP Snapper and the WIP Big Red Snapper. They're really nice plants and I'm glad that Bob Hanrahan was able to send some to Steve before his all got wiped out by the flood.

Steve_D wrote:Grun, an all-green heterodoxa variety of Dionaea like Justina Davis, but with larger traps and a neater, more prostrate growing habit.

I was just looking at my Grun flytrap this morning while pollinating. It's a gorgeous plant with nice large traps that are lime green (no red in them).

David, if your looking for a great germination rate you can't go wrong with the FTS 2010 seed mix. I've had 39 of 44 seeds sprout for me so far ( i had 37 but two more just came up). They're way too small to tell what they'll look like when mature but I can't wait to find out!!