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By TrapMaster
Posts:  24
Joined:  Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:20 pm
#139425
Ok I might already know the answer to this question, but what goes on inside a pitcher plant(PP) when they capture food?

I know in much larger PP there is a small pool of water inside the plant, to drown insects, and to digest them.. However, none of my PP are huge like that yet. At least not at the size of the ones I see here on this forum. SO......

I just fed my PP with a commend roach found in the kitchen. The PP was deftly large enough to take in the roach, but under the light notice just a small droplet of water at the base of the PP. The roach is already stuck but not quite where the droplet is located. Will the PP detect the roach and begin to fill up with water? If so how does it detect food?
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By steve booth
Posts:  1238
Joined:  Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:15 am
#139429
Hi Trapmaster

Firstly I assume that it is not a Nepenthes if it is then disregard the following.

Then if it is a Sarracenia it depends totally on what type of sarracenia plant you have, if it is a purpurea or perhaps one of its hybrids, these do not make their own digestive emzymes but have hoods that are angled at 45 degrees or more, to the sky so they can catch some rain water, this drowns the insect and absorbs the nutrients as they are released from its body. The plant then absorbs these nutrients through the plant tissue in contact with the water.

If it is one of the taller types, flava, oreophilla, leucophyla etc themn these do make thier own digestive fluids and have hoods generally angled over the pitcher openings to stop rain water entering and reducing the effectiveness of the digestive emzymes. They only make these fluids when there is prey in the pitcher and even then not in any great discernable quantities.

Cheers
Steve
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By parker679
Posts:  1642
Joined:  Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:34 pm
#139431
Just confirming what Steve wrote. That's pretty much it.

This is why tall Sarracenia tip over if they get too much water in them, they're not really made to hold water.

As for the roach you fed to the plant, I wouldn't worry about it. Unlike VFT's and some Drosera, the pitchers don't really take an active role in the digestion/capture. It's possible that an insect in the pitcher may stimulate the release of digestive enzymes but I'm not sure. It's really more that the roach will eventually die of starvation/dehydration and after that it will start to decay. As the liquids leave it's body the plant will absorb nutrients from them. The liquid just helps the process along by breaking things down quicker but it will still work if there isn't any liquid or if the roach isn't sitting in the liquid.
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By Daniel_G
Posts:  5472
Joined:  Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:27 pm
#139474
TrapMaster wrote:Oh I release the picture of my plants on this page. http://www.flytrapcare.com/phpBB3/venus ... 15140.html

Other names they call this type of Pitcher plant is the trumpet plant.

So this type makes it's own juicy or need rain water to break down it's meal?
By parker679
Posts:  1642
Joined:  Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:34 pm
#139482
swat007j wrote:I live in L.A and it rain last week but my PP didn't collect any rain water and it doesn't look like it will rain any time soon should I pour some distilled water in it? or will it fill it self with water using the roots or something? here how it looks like http://www.flytrapcare.com/phpBB3/my-fi ... 15117.html
The S. purpurea, or purple pitcher, is a type that uses water do "digest" the bugs. If the pitchers dry you can add some distilled or rain water to them without any problems.


TrapMaster wrote:Oh I release the picture of my plants on this page. http://www.flytrapcare.com/phpBB3/venus ... 15140.html

Other names they call this type of Pitcher plant is the trump plant.

So this type makes it's own juicy or need rain water to break down it's meal?
Not sure exactly what type that is, it looks like a hybrid. But based on the size of the pitchers and the hood I wouldn't add any water to it. It should produce it's own liquid, even if it doesn't it's fine.
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By TrapMaster
Posts:  24
Joined:  Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:20 pm
#139519
parker679 wrote:
swat007j wrote:I live in L.A and it rain last week but my PP didn't collect any rain water and it doesn't look like it will rain any time soon should I pour some distilled water in it? or will it fill it self with water using the roots or something? here how it looks like http://www.flytrapcare.com/phpBB3/my-fi ... 15117.html
The S. purpurea, or purple pitcher, is a type that uses water do "digest" the bugs. If the pitchers dry you can add some distilled or rain water to them without any problems.


TrapMaster wrote:Oh I release the picture of my plants on this page. http://www.flytrapcare.com/phpBB3/venus ... 15140.html

Other names they call this type of Pitcher plant is the trump plant.

So this type makes it's own juicy or need rain water to break down it's meal?
Not sure exactly what type that is, it looks like a hybrid. But based on the size of the pitchers and the hood I wouldn't add any water to it. It should produce it's own liquid, even if it doesn't it's fine.
Ok thanks. So I can make my own judgement base on the height and hood angle. And I have also took a second look at that roach. I can see the water level raising, and is now at the head level with the bug inside. I'm 100% sure that this PP well do all of the work of breaking down the bug vs having to add water to help it along.
By Tony C
Posts:  352
Joined:  Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:23 am
#139563
parker679 wrote:Not sure exactly what type that is, it looks like a hybrid. But based on the size of the pitchers and the hood I wouldn't add any water to it. It should produce it's own liquid, even if it doesn't it's fine.
Looks like a light-starved S. rubra to me.
By parker679
Posts:  1642
Joined:  Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:34 pm
#139573
TrapMaster wrote: Ok thanks. So I can make my own judgement base on the height and hood angle. And I have also took a second look at that roach. I can see the water level raising, and is now at the head level with the bug inside. I'm 100% sure that this PP well do all of the work of breaking down the bug vs having to add water to help it along.

Sorry, what I meant was that since I didn't know exactly what you had, based on the pitcher shape and hood angle it looks like a type that doesn't hold much water. I didn't mean that at some point your specific plant may develop a shape that would require you to add water. Tony is correct as to the type, it does look like an S. rubra though I don't think it looks too light starved. How much light do they get by that window and do you ever put them outside?
By TrapMaster
Posts:  24
Joined:  Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:20 pm
#139614
parker679 wrote:
TrapMaster wrote: Ok thanks. So I can make my own judgement base on the height and hood angle. And I have also took a second look at that roach. I can see the water level raising, and is now at the head level with the bug inside. I'm 100% sure that this PP well do all of the work of breaking down the bug vs having to add water to help it along.

Sorry, what I meant was that since I didn't know exactly what you had, based on the pitcher shape and hood angle it looks like a type that doesn't hold much water. I didn't mean that at some point your specific plant may develop a shape that would require you to add water. Tony is correct as to the type, it does look like an S. rubra though I don't think it looks too light starved. How much light do they get by that window and do you ever put them outside?
7am to 7 pm. Direct sun light starts at 11am to 5:30pm. If not enough, can I use a indoor light source?
By Tony C
Posts:  352
Joined:  Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:23 am
#139627
parker679 wrote:
TrapMaster wrote:Tony is correct as to the type, it does look like an S. rubra though I don't think it looks too light starved. How much light do they get by that window and do you ever put them outside?
The main things that make me think it needs more light is the coloring and the size of the ala, I've noticed in S. rubra and its hybrids that the ala tends to grow larger under less than ideal lighting than it does in full sun. I'm sure there is enough light to keep it alive, but if there was a way to protect it from the destructive kids then being outside in full sun would be ideal.
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By TrapMaster
Posts:  24
Joined:  Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:20 pm
#139636
Tony C wrote:
parker679 wrote:
TrapMaster wrote:Tony is correct as to the type, it does look like an S. rubra though I don't think it looks too light starved. How much light do they get by that window and do you ever put them outside?
The main things that make me think it needs more light is the coloring and the size of the ala, I've noticed in S. rubra and its hybrids that the ala tends to grow larger under less than ideal lighting than it does in full sun. I'm sure there is enough light to keep it alive, but if there was a way to protect it from the destructive kids then being outside in full sun would be ideal.
Yeah I can place the plants on where I can see them when ever I'm home. And I can chase those kids away with a pitch fork. Or ShotGun. :mrgreen:
By Veronis
Posts:  2202
Joined:  Fri May 29, 2009 8:41 pm
#139646
Two different things happen with prey inside Sarracenia pitchers, depending partly on species. First, hoods and rain, as Steve mentioned in his reply:


Hoods and Rain

All Sarracenia have a lid, commonly referred to as a "hood", which is part of the prey-trapping mechanism. There are, however, some hybrids that are lidless, or have greatly reduced lids, such as S. leucophylla 'Bris'. Even S. purpurea has a hood - it's just at a 90 degree angle to the ground and cannot block rain; instead it collects it:
The attachment s_purpurea_01.jpg is no longer available
A Sarr's hood is referred to as the first "Hooker Zone", or zone 1, which is part of a set of zones of a pitcher named after Joseph Hooker, who was a botanist known partly for his studies on Nepenthes in the 1870's. These zones can be used to describe the trapping and digestion mechanisms of all carnivorous pitcher plants, including Nepenthes. Rather than go into detail on the Hooker Zones, I'll just post a link to the Sarracenia-specific write-up regarding these zones, written by Barry Rice:
http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq5521.html

Purpurea hybrids like S. x catesbaei (S. flava x purpurea) have hoods that block some rain, but their purpurea heritage causes a marginally-effective hood that lets more rain though than, say, S. flava.

Catesbaei hood:
s_purpurea_01.jpg
s_purpurea_01.jpg (175.28 KiB) Viewed 8444 times
Rain collected in this very same catesbaei pitcher after 1 hard rain:
s_judith_hidle_inner.jpg
s_judith_hidle_inner.jpg (50.89 KiB) Viewed 8444 times
Even though some Sarr's do not collect rain water, they do often collect morning dew.
Pitcher shown below is the inner wall of a S. leucophylla x flava rugelii, commonly known as S. 'Judith Hindle'.
These dew droplets were gone by noon:
The attachment s_judith_hidle_inner.jpg is no longer available

Luring/Trapping

Sarracenia have bristle hairs on the underside of their hoods (these bristle hairs exist in other zones as well, especially near the bottom where prey reside), which usher in prey and make it more difficult to escape. These bristle hairs are slippery, as is the lip of the pitcher, so when they land on the underside of a hood or on the pitcher's lip to investigate the enticing scent the Sarr produces, or to collect a nectar reward, they often slip on the bristle hairs or the lip, and fall in (photos inside another Judith Hindle).
The attachment s_judith_hindle.jpg is no longer available
When insects fall into the pitcher, even winged insects can't escape. Heck, even winged insects near the tops of pitchers often can't escape.
s_judith_hindle.jpg
s_judith_hindle.jpg (127.96 KiB) Viewed 8444 times
Winged insects climbing futilely, knowing full well by this point after multiple failed attempts, that flying out is not an option:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec6_kpi2Qq8[/youtube]

The inner walls of (some/all? I'm not sure) Sarracenia pitchers also contain microscopic scales that point downward, adding to the effectiveness of their trapping mechanism:
http://www.psmicrographs.co.uk/pitcher- ... e/80018477

To segway into the digestion notes below, the inner walls of Sarracenia pitchers lack the waxy coating that envelops most plant leaves (the "cuticle"); this allows for easier absorption of nutrients from trapped prey.


Digestion

A. So...what happens inside plants like S. flava, S. rubra, S. minor, etc. (hooded pitchers whose hoods block rain):
The insect will die in here, either from starvation or drowning (if enough rainwater has made it in from, say, a windy torrential downpour). The plant releases enzimes from inside the walls on the lower portion of the pitcher, which envelops prey and starts breaking it down. The enzimes absorb the nutrients (e.g. nitrogen) from the insect back into the inner wall of the pitcher. Below is a cross-section of one of these pitchers. I've seen pitchers even more full of insects than this. Sarracenia are gluttonous pigs, especially S. leucophylla and S. flava.
s_catesbaei_hood.jpg
s_catesbaei_hood.jpg (189.73 KiB) Viewed 8444 times
The above cross-section photo was not taken by me. It is property of Barry Rice, sarracenia.com

B. What happens inside plants like S. purpurea/S. rosea (Sarrs that collect rainwater):
Purpurea, like the pitchers above, also secrete the standard Sarracenia digestive enzymes, so part of the digestive process here is the same as those with hoods that block rain. If prey falls into a newly-opened S. purpurea pitcher and it has not rained since the pitcher opened, the plant can still absorb nutrients from it via process A.

In addition to this, insects that fall into these Sarr pitchers generally drown in the collected rainwater. Bacteria and other microorganisms, which reside in the water in these pitchers, break apart prey and help dissolve their bodies, which aids the digestive process.
1025091111a.jpg
1025091111a.jpg (79.53 KiB) Viewed 8444 times

For Sarracenia, the absorbed nutrients from insects consist primarily of nitrogen and phosphorous. In both of the above cases (A and B), to complete the digestion process, the now-nutriated enzimes/water that were absorbed back into the inner walls of the pitcher travel via absorption pathways throughout the plant, all the way down to the rhizome to "feed" the plant. It stores these nutrients and uses them, in conjunction with light-energy, for everything from generating flower stalks/producing seed, to root development, to making additional pitchers.
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