FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

Clint uses Schultz's Orchid Fertilizer and Alaska Fish Fertilizer. He also said that Maxsea 16-16-16 would be fine too.

He has said in the past that copper and zinc content in any fertilizer, however low, may have something to do with pitcher death or long-term adverse affects to a nep, but of course he can't be sure. He's actually the person who taught me a couple years back that copper/zinc were toxic to neps.

Edit: The copper/zinc content in the fertilizer I use is no more than Maxsea or the Schultz that he uses. So I don't think that's the problem.

I asked him if there were instances where he'd use Shultz over the Alaskan of if he has just used both and got similar results. I'll touch back with his response when I get it.

Clint replied again and said he didn't note a big difference between the Schultz orchid fert and Alaskan Fish fert. From my own research I found the Schultz fert is far more popular among nep growers.

Urea doesn't seem to be a huge problem for nepenthes, by the way. There are arguments both directions - yes it can burn the roots if you don't flush properly. Lot of people use fertilizer with urea in it, though, and their neps do fine. The other reason urea is problematic is because microbes are required to break down urea before it becomes useable nitrogen. Most Neps don't grow in "soil" (orchid bark, lava rock, LFS etc. don't typically have such microbes).

This is just never gonna end...

Here are the analyses of the three fertilizers (guaranteed analysis) - I'm not bothering with the alaskan fish fertilizer because it's very low content and I don't know anyone who uses it besides Clint:

• Maxsea 16-16-16: http://agr.wa.gov/pestfert/fertilizers/ ... pname=3816 (all the rage right now; many top nep growers use this exclusively)
• Schultz Orchid Food 19-31-17: http://agr.wa.gov/pestfert/fertilizers/ ... pname=2396 (a lot of Nep growers use this on their neps; once I read up I was surprised to see how many nep growers use this stuff)
• Orchid Plus Better Gro 20-14-13 - http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/fert2.asp?ID=10046. Here are someone else's documented results: http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q265 ... 3fb373.pbw (I've attached screen shots in case it ever disappears) - these are two different pitchers; one that grew before using this fertilizer, and the next pitcher that grew after pouring this stuff into the soil at 1/4 strength. I've used this stuff myself, and my results have been excellent as well.

I'd imagine the results from using any of these three fertilizers would be about the same or at least close.

I called California Carnivores regarding their use of Maxsea 16-16-16: He fertilizes with the Maxsea 16-16-16 into the soil (he said they're generous with it, they put it in until it starts running out of the bottom of the pot) and they also make sure it gets all over the leaves. A little bit always finds its way into the pitchers, but he noted they never purposely fill the pitchers. They flush with water 2 days later and have not reported any algae problems. They fertilize every 2-3 weeks using 1 teaspoon (1/3 tablespoon) of Maxsea per gallon of water.


Edit: Some final comments...

Schultz 19-31-17 vs. Maxsea 16-16-16 vs. BetterGro 20-14-13: You can use any of em. From what I've read, results are good with all of them. BetterGro has no more copper/zinc than the Maxsea or Schultz (I checked by bag), so I think the copper/zinc issue is moot. I don't know many other people who use the BetterGro stuff, but from personal experience, my results have been very good.

Pitcher vs. soil: Again, you can use either. If you soil feed, flush 2 days later. If your soil is not extremely well-drained you may have algae problems even if you flush. If you pitcher-feed, whether it will shorten individual pitcher life may depend on your plant. People who pitcher-feed swear by it. I've heard from people who use both fertilizers, and both methods, and all have good results.

Your mileage will vary. Pick one, try it, see what works for you. There's clearly not a "best" method or fertilizer. Maxsea does seem to be all the talk lately, so that's why I'm trying it. As for soil vs. pitcher feeding, I can't tell you whether one is better than the other. I'd guess the difference is small, if any.

For all you Cephalotus growers, my plants have exploded since I started pitcher feeding them with Better Grow Orchid Plus 20-14-13

The first picture is a few weeks after receiving the plant (July 17), the 2nd picture is from Saturday (November 7th). The results are stunning - especially since most consider Cephalotus to be a slow grower.




Certainly this isn't scientific evidence, but it does show quite a difference. I have been fertilizing the plant for 2ish months.

Also, I have not had any pitcher loss at all on any of my plants - a few Cephalotus and a N. Ramispina.

Twigs your results are impressive.

I am still seeing growth in my nep that far exceeds my expectations, pitcher-filling with Better-Gro Orchid Plus 20-14-13 (1/4 strength). The reason one of my pitchers is dying is still a mystery to me. It may be due in part to the fact that it's a young plant. Someone at terraforums indicated that it may only be the top part of the pitcher is dying, and the reason may be to prevent bugs (more nutrients) from getting into the pitcher - killing off its top-half means no more dew created to lure bugs - because that pitcher can't take any more nutrients. If this is true, then my guess would be that 20% usable urea-free nitrogen (even at 1/4 strength) was too much for this particular nep.

After additional reading, it seems to me that there are microbes in nepenthes pitchers, but no comments as to whether these are the same microbes that can break down urea into usable nitrogen. I would think that if there were, it would be common knowledge.

Of the fertilizers mentioned:
Better-Gro Orchid Plus 20-14-13: no urea
Maxsea 16-16-16: contains urea (unknown amount)
Schultz Orchid Fertilizer 19-31-17: contains urea (13.4%, I believe is what I read)

I know several people who pitcher-fill with the Schultz and get good results, others water their media and also report good results. I think urea is only a concern if you're pouring it into the soil and not flushing, because it can cause root burn. If you don't have your nep planted in soil, and there are no microbes to break down the urea, the nep doesn't get all the nitrogen that the fert is meant to give it. If you put urea-based nitrogen into a pitcher, I assume there are no such microbes in a nep pitcher so again it doesn't get the full nitrogen benefit from the fertilizer.


Enough waffling - I think I created more questions than I answered.

If anyone has anything else to share, please do.

Thanks for all of the information Veronis. I appreciate it!

That IS very impressive growth on your Ceph twigs. I'm going to start using Better Grow Orchid Plus 20-14-13 fertilizer in my pitchers too!

Matt wrote:Thanks for all of the information Veronis. I appreciate it!

That IS very impressive growth on your Ceph twigs. I'm going to start using Better Grow Orchid Plus 20-14-13 fertilizer in my pitchers too!

Only for your cephs, or are you going to try it in your neps too?

Veronis wrote:Only for your cephs, or are you going to try it in your neps too?

I probably will, but right now, for some reason, I'm not all that interested in Neps. Also, I'm running out of room to grow, so I really don't want my Nepenthes to grow any faster than they already are!

twigs wrote:For all you Cephalotus growers, my plants have exploded since I started pitcher feeding them with Better Grow Orchid Plus 20-14-13

The first picture is a few weeks after receiving the plant (July 17), the 2nd picture is from Saturday (November 7th). The results are stunning - especially since most consider Cephalotus to be a slow grower.




Certainly this isn't scientific evidence, but it does show quite a difference. I have been fertilizing the plant for 2ish months.

Also, I have not had any pitcher loss at all on any of my plants - a few Cephalotus and a N. Ramispina.

Can you tell me if the fertilizer was diluted and if so what is the ratio? Where exactly did you put the fertilizer and how much did you put? Thanks

twigs wrote:For all you Cephalotus growers, my plants have exploded since I started pitcher feeding them with Better Grow Orchid Plus 20-14-13

The first picture is a few weeks after receiving the plant (July 17), the 2nd picture is from Saturday (November 7th). The results are stunning - especially since most consider Cephalotus to be a slow grower.




Certainly this isn't scientific evidence, but it does show quite a difference. I have been fertilizing the plant for 2ish months.

Also, I have not had any pitcher loss at all on any of my plants - a few Cephalotus and a N. Ramispina.

OMG that is a amazing ceph! how old is it? i don think mine is gonna be as awesome as yours!

I found this website dedicated to Cephs. He talks about his experiments with fertilizers. Here is the link:

http://www.aqph26.dsl.pipex.com/cephalotusfolliq.html

I have been messaging Zack but I figured I would post the info here for all.

I use 1/4 strength fertilizer once every 2-3 weeks. I usually fill the pitchers to the top.

For this big guy, I don't bother filling every pitcher, but on my smaller divisions I do fill all open pitchers.

As to it's age - I'm not really sure. It was mature when I got it from Steve_D back in July. It did not go through much, if any, shock from shipment probably due to Steve's awesome care. It has been inside the whole time I have owned it, temperature goes from 70 at night to 80-85 during the day. Now its under 4x T8 32 watt bulbs but it has only been under 4 bulbs the past month or so, before it was just under 2 bulbs.

I'll try to make a full thread of the growth of this plant and it's divisions - some of which are equally impressive when you compare the pictures from July.

Thank very much Brad. I really appreciate you showing us the good results of your experimentation

twigs wrote:I have been messaging Zack but I figured I would post the info here for all.

I use 1/4 strength fertilizer once every 2-3 weeks. I usually fill the pitchers to the top.

For this big guy, I don't bother filling every pitcher, but on my smaller divisions I do fill all open pitchers.

As to it's age - I'm not really sure. It was mature when I got it from Steve_D back in July. It did not go through much, if any, shock from shipment probably due to Steve's awesome care. It has been inside the whole time I have owned it, temperature goes from 70 at night to 80-85 during the day. Now its under 4x T8 32 watt bulbs but it has only been under 4 bulbs the past month or so, before it was just under 2 bulbs.

I'll try to make a full thread of the growth of this plant and it's divisions - some of which are equally impressive when you compare the pictures from July.

Thanks! and well your ceph is awesome man

twigs wrote:I have been messaging Zack but I figured I would post the info here for all.

Thanks for all the info Brad. Now I know who to harass when I get cephs.