Hybrid vs. Non Hybrid

Hybrid vs. Non Hybrid#443598

By andynorth -  Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:22 am
Location:  Federal Way, WA
Posts:  1411
Joined:  Fri May 12, 2023 9:08 pm

- Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:22 am #443598

This might sound like a dumb question as I know what Hybrids are. That said, what are the diferences of a hybrid plant vs. a non hybrid plant? Are non hybrid's those that have not been crossed with another plant? I have a mix of hybrid and non hybrid and would like to understand this a littl3e better for future purchases.

Jedikinigit liked this

Thank you:
andynorth-s-grow-want-list-t58612.html

Andy North

Re: Hybrid vs. Non Hybrid#443603

By steve booth -  Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:28 am
Posts:  1240
Joined:  Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:15 am

- Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:28 am #443603

Hi Andy
Thats more or less it, taking a simple example of a S. flava, then a flava crossed with another flava is still a flava even though in theory its genes are now different, this also applies if it is selfed, but you cross it with something else then it becomes a hybrid, flava x leucophylla = S. X moorei, and flava x purpurea = S. X catesbaei, and it will remain so if you backcross it with one of its parents, i.e S. catesbaei X S. purpurea = S. X catesbaei.
Similarly if you cross a sub-species with another sub-species, say a var. flava x flava rugelli, then you still have a flava, but now a hybrid flava as it is now neither a pure flava or rugelii, having a mix of the genes of each parent. This is why it is important to keep good labeling, so don't label it just as a flava, as this flava will tend to exhibit the predominant genes of one of the parents, so may look a lot like a rugelii, and with subsequent crossing, the genes of the other parent can/will come out and totally cock up someone's breeding programme.

Hope that makes sense, it's a poor explanation but I hope you get the gist. Barry Rice does a nice beginner's introduction have a look at this.
https://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq5547.html
And if you want to explore a bit try
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/sa ... plain.html

Cheers
Steve

andynorth liked this

Re: Hybrid vs. Non Hybrid#443661

By andynorth -  Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:55 pm
Location:  Federal Way, WA
Posts:  1411
Joined:  Fri May 12, 2023 9:08 pm

- Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:55 pm #443661

steve booth wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:28 am Hi Andy
Thats more or less it, taking a simple example of a S. flava, then a flava crossed with another flava is still a flava even though in theory its genes are now different, this also applies if it is selfed, but you cross it with something else then it becomes a hybrid, flava x leucophylla = S. X moorei, and flava x purpurea = S. X catesbaei, and it will remain so if you backcross it with one of its parents, i.e S. catesbaei X S. purpurea = S. X catesbaei.
Similarly if you cross a sub-species with another sub-species, say a var. flava x flava rugelli, then you still have a flava, but now a hybrid flava as it is now neither a pure flava or rugelii, having a mix of the genes of each parent. This is why it is important to keep good labeling, so don't label it just as a flava, as this flava will tend to exhibit the predominant genes of one of the parents, so may look a lot like a rugelii, and with subsequent crossing, the genes of the other parent can/will come out and totally cock up someone's breeding programme.

Hope that makes sense, it's a poor explanation but I hope you get the gist. Barry Rice does a nice beginner's introduction have a look at this.
https://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq5547.html
And if you want to explore a bit try
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/sa ... plain.html

Cheers
Steve

Yes, It does make sense. I have seen some of Barry's sites, even taking a tour of his "Field Trip" web sites about Okefenokee and other locations. He and his wife have certainly traveled the world and documented all of it which I think is absolutely awesome, especially for beginners. Thanks for the explanation. I did not feel my thinking was far off but I wanted to make certain before I jump in to crossing species.

Thank you:
andynorth-s-grow-want-list-t58612.html

Andy North

Re: Hybrid vs. Non Hybrid#443725

By MikeB -  Wed Dec 06, 2023 3:36 am
Location:  Clayton, NC, USA - Zone 8a
Posts:  1916
Joined:  Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:13 pm

- Wed Dec 06, 2023 3:36 am #443725

When two subspecies or varieties of the same species cross-pollinate, their offspring are known as "intergrade". They're still the same species, now showing traits of the different parents. Here is a good example of a Sarracenia flava intergrade: it isn't var. atropurpurea, and it isn't var. cuprea, but it's still a flava.

The different varieties don't necessarily grow in isolation. In some places, you'll might find predominantly just one variety. On the flip side, I've seen fields that had Sarracenia flava var. flava, cuprea, maxima, and ornata, along with various combinations of those varieties. The need to label the color varieties is a human affectation; the plants don't give a rat's butt what people think (to quote Popeye: "I yam what I yam").

Joanie, Jedikinigit, andynorth liked this

Re: Hybrid vs. Non Hybrid#444638

By Jedikinigit -  Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:29 pm
Location:  North Central Florida Zone 9a
Posts:  107
Joined:  Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:35 pm

- Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:29 pm #444638

Very helpful information. Thank you for this discussion. Do you need to label when you self pollinate? Sometimes I see x self but other times I don't.

Re: Hybrid vs. Non Hybrid#444672

By MikeB -  Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:11 pm
Location:  Clayton, NC, USA - Zone 8a
Posts:  1916
Joined:  Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:13 pm

- Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:11 pm #444672

Jedikinigit wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:29 pmDo you need to label when you self pollinate?

I do, so the buyer knows the plant's parentage. If there is no label, then I assume the plant was open-pollinated (i.e., no idea who the pollen parent was).

Jedikinigit, andynorth liked this

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