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Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:35 pm
by Darkrai283
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-16772704

Its so sad to hear all of this is happening. But its for a good cause I guess. :( I hope the national trust does a good cause to all of these plants by selling them to a reputable nursery or something similar to that instead of just throwing them away. In the article, it says the all the sarrs were pulled out by hand but these S.purpurea's were from the original plants Adrian Slack planted himself in the 1960's so there's likely to be copious amounts of seeds, roots, and small parts of the rhizome left over. Which means that the national trust people would have to come back in a few years time again to remove them from the bogs. All of Adrian Slack's efforts wasted. :(

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:43 pm
by stitz25b
"its bad for the birds that eat them and they arecompeting with sndews"
isnt this nature anyway?
competition

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:16 pm
by David F
Lol I don't see how such a slow growing plant could possibly affect a place so adversly to the point of removal.

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:50 am
by hegory
Dang! Send me what they don't want! I would be happy to take what I could!

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:12 am
by PeatMoss
The way things have turned out with many invasive plant species, it must be assumed that any non-native plant species is a threat to biodiversity.

"its bad for the birds that eat them and they arecompeting with sndews"
isnt this nature anyway?
competition


~It's not a "natural" process of competition if one of the species is introduced. The introduction of these species may not have been considered ethically wrong at the time when they were introduced but they are now, so it is necessary that they be removed. I have seen photos of the specific areas where these plants were growing and they were in all likelihood having some type of negative impact on native species. The plants were growing in enormous clumps all over the place, probably crowding out Drosera and also other native non-carnivorous species.

Thanks for reading and sorry for the long post.

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:33 am
by Daniel_G
The thing is now these purps have become a part of nature, as some have said on the CPUK forum about this article, the ammount of seed will probably be there always. No matter what those seeds will be there, unless the National Trust intends on using flamethrowers all over our bogs, which seems highly unlikely.

It would be very surprising to see the bogs rid of S. Purpurea forever.

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:12 am
by stitz25b
what do u think wil happen to the plants?

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:09 pm
by PeatMoss
I would think they are just trying to remove enough plants to provide habitat space for the native species, a few growing here and there will not matter as long as they prevent them from setting seed. The population probably got large enough to galvanize the national trust into action.

The thing is now these purps have become a part of nature, as some have said on the CPUK forum about this article, the ammount of seed will probably be there always. No matter what those seeds will be there, unless the National Trust intends on using flamethrowers all over our bogs, which seems highly unlikely.

It would be very surprising to see the bogs rid of S. Purpurea forever.


It is not really possible for a non-native species to become a "part of nature" because they have been in an area for long enough. A non native species will always cause some form of pressure on native species even if these pressures can not be seen. I live in Canada and have seen the effect that many different species of non-native plants from Europe can have on our native environment and I really think that any non native or invasive species should be considered an immediate threat even if the fears are unfounded.

Interesting arguments being made about this issue here:
http://icps.proboards.com/index.cgi?boa ... hread=5296

Another interesting story about non-native insectivores outcompeting native species:
http://icps.proboards.com/index.cgi?boa ... hread=1810
http://icps.proboards.com/index.cgi?boa ... hread=1205

I liked this quote by Aiden:
"They should not be there in the first place. Removal of non natives while it is still possible to do so, is the right thing to do."

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:58 pm
by Daniel_G
As one person on the CPUK thread said "I dont see them pulling up pansies, wallflowers, tulips etc etc etc, when does an alien species become acceptable?"

These flowers are a part of British nature wouldn't you agree? Even if not originally from the UK.

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:39 pm
by PeatMoss
Are the flowers you speak of growing wild in the UK and crowding out native species of wildflower? If they are not, that statement would be like saying "I don't see them pulling up sarracenia from bog gardens, why are they pulling up naturalized specimens?"

Although these plants may be historically important/interesting I believe it is the responsibility of the trust to try to return the native areas to the most pristine natural conditions possible.

I think it is also important to note that although the genus Sarracenia is endangered the species purpurea is not. I think it may be a good idea to send some of the removed plants to nurseries to be propagated since they are heirloom varieties. But I do not think that it is worth the time and effort of the trust to ensure that every plant makes it to a good home, especially considering it is very difficult to adapt wild plants to the conditions of cultivation.

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:42 am
by hegory
No use cryin over spilled milk. If the plants are well rooted in that area, than they will very likely not be able to erradicate the species. And they can pluck to their hearts content, both sides end up satified (even if slightly). I just see that sight and it makes me want to shed a tear, my own purpurea is fairly slow and seeing all of those mature, beautiful purpureas brings a tear to my eye.

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:53 am
by alabama
this is ridiculous!!!
these plants shouldnt be removed from the natural home they want to eat bugs just as bad as the birds they have to compete with birds each other..
just seems outrageous.

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:47 am
by hegory
Tyler, the idea is that because these plants were introduced into the above area, and aren't native to it, that they can cause some environmental damage.

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:54 am
by Oblivion
alabama wrote:this is ridiculous!!!
these plants shouldnt be removed from the natural home they want to eat bugs just as bad as the birds they have to compete with birds each other..
just seems outrageous.


a north american pitcher plants "natural home" is not the UK.

if a fox got in your chicken coup you wouldnt be saying "those chickens need to evolve and learn to compete with the fox " would you?

Re: Sarracenia's removed from the Lake District

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:54 am
by Darkrai283
Oblivion wrote:if a fox got in your chicken coup you wouldnt be saying "those chickens need to evolve and learn to compete with the fox " would you?


:lol: You're a joker Glenn! :lol: