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Ask questions about how to grow and care for Venus Flytraps

Moderator: Matt

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By salty
Posts:  195
Joined:  Mon May 17, 2010 11:30 am
#353483
I always knew the meristem as the growth point. My experience has been what Matt describes and I don’t believe the “mother” plant dies or stops growing. I don’t believe just because the growth point shifts that it’s a “new” plant. Just a quick search doesn’t show a fly trap as monocarpic. Matt’s experience shows that even if a plant flowers and does not divide it still survives. That’s good enough for me. I have a B52 for a couple years that doesn’t seem to want to divide. If I hadn’t already cut the stalk off I would of let it flower just to “double check” what I think is accurate.
As a side note, I come on here to maybe learn something, maybe help someone etc. so I as well as others would probably rather not be insulted for having a discussion.
By Copper2
Posts:  915
Joined:  Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:02 am
#353485
If you did check your plants and reported your accurate observations than maybe we could have a normal conversation. But none of you guys seem to have done that. You say flytraps continue growing after flowering and also say that they can’t survive without a dormancy. I’ve shown my side of the argument about the flytraps having a terminal growth point after flowering and here’s my side of the argument about if they need a dormancy - they don’t. VFTs in tissue culture don’t need dormancy! Yes Matt grows some of his flytraps without dormancies! Tissue culture is no different than growing a flytrap regularly except it’s a different “soil” and it’s sterile!
Last edited by Copper2 on Thu May 07, 2020 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
By Copper2
Posts:  915
Joined:  Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:02 am
#353486
I came here to have fun and learn something. Theres some more tension I’m this thread than I’d like. Didn’t think about that did you?
Last edited by Copper2 on Thu May 07, 2020 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By Artchic528
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Posts:  612
Joined:  Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:13 pm
#353488
Matt wrote:
Artchic528 wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 6:45 pm
Copper2 wrote:Facts are built upon not changed. With your point of view you might as well be saying that the world is flat since the last study was ages ago and NASA is a secret hoax society.
This is actually proving my point and contradictory to yours. :lol:
:lol: I thought the same thing! At one point in the history of the world, it was a "fact" that the world is flat. So are we still building upon that "fact" or have we since learned otherwise? :D
IKR? I'm done contributing to this abstract debate on wether or not a venus flytrap dies after flowering. It's going nowhere and doesn't serve the original topic of this thread.
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By Artchic528
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Posts:  612
Joined:  Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:13 pm
#353489
Copper2 wrote:Hey, and Salty A ioli, I came here to have fun and learn something. You people have insulted me! Didn’t think about that did you?
I'm sorry you feel insulted. I also felt insulted. Maybe we should step away for a while and cool our heads? That way we won't be in a mindset to insult or feel insulted.
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By sanguinearocks101
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Posts:  1153
Joined:  Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:56 am
#353490
Sorry for adding a little bit of fuel to the fire but I agree with Copper about the main plant dying and a new one replacing it. When my vft flowered a while ago I didn't notice much then but now there are a bunch of the parts of the rhizome where leaves were on one side but not on the other and there was never more than one growth point at a time. I doubt any of you have done scientific studies on vfts like the one Copper posted an article of. And back then it was a belief that the world was flat, there was no evidence that it was but there was evidence it wasn't, the Greeks knew it was a sphere due to astronomical observations. Now we have satellites orbiting around the Earth and boats sailing around it so we know it is a fact that it is a sphere. Facts are supported by evidence, beliefs are supported by thoughts.
Last edited by sanguinearocks101 on Fri May 08, 2020 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By _-SphagnumFromHell-_
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Posts:  575
Joined:  Mon May 28, 2018 5:02 pm
#353491
@Copper2, Look, you have your reasons for thinking the way you do. I get your frustration.

but maybe, just maybe, the study was wrong about some things? Scientists are people after all. I don't know the thoroughness of the paper or what happens to get information like this published, so I could be talking nonsense, but it's something to consider.

And Barry Rice, a botanist and writer about carnivorous plants, has said some stuff that is quite contradictory to a lot of the knowledge shared here. He's stated that Flytraps don't need big pots and their seeds should be stratified. And this is someone that without a doubt should know what he's talking about.

I also recall some other highly regarded source, either the book "The Savage Garden" or the guys over at Sarracenia Northwest or somewhere similar saying that LFS is simply inferior to peat because of its tendency to get too wet too quickly. And look at half of the people on these forums! They swear by it.

The reason many are rejecting your claim is that our experience doesn't match up with what's being said. Even Matt, the one that owns the site dedicated to sharing knowledge and selling the plants says it doesn't match up. It's not that we don't care about the truth. If a study came out saying that Flytrap should be repotted twice every growing season instead of the normal once every 1-2 seasons, would you believe it? Or would you stick with what you've been doing for years?

Of course, I don't think the person that did the study should be written off entirely. People's experiences and knowledge regarding these plants varies incredibly. That's why we have these forums. It's just that with the abundance of information both false and true on these subjects, we might trust our gut more when faced with certain claims.
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By Matt
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Posts:  21197
Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
#353493
Copper2 wrote:Hey, and Salty A ioli, I came here to have fun and learn something. You people have insulted me! Didn’t think about that did you?
Hey Copper2, I sincerely apologize. No harm intended at all. Looking back at the discussion, I can see now how what I wrote could easily have been insulting. I am sorry. As I mentioned before, we are all exchanging information here to learn from each other. I have definitely learned from your posts many times. I hope you can forgive. Again, no harm intended and sincere apologies!!

sanguinearocks101 wrote:Sorry for adding a little bit of fuel to the fire but I agree with Copper.
Hopefully there is no fire to fuel! As far as I can tell, no one has been intentionally rude or condescending. We've just been having an honest discussion. Sometimes people have different opinions (albeit strong opinions) on subjects, even if they have a very strong common interest in the same topic. That's totally OK! As long as everyone has an open mind, I think we all walk away from these sorts of discussions better off for having them.

help/bbcode
_-SphagnumFromHell-_ wrote:And Barry Rice, a botanist and writer about carnivorous plants, has said some stuff that is quite contradictory to a lot of the knowledge shared here. He's stated that Flytraps don't need big pots and their seeds should be stratified. And this is someone that without a doubt should know what he's talking about.
Great point! I agree that "Flytraps don't need big pots" but they certainly do grow much, much better in big pots! And their seeds absolutely do not need to be stratified, so I can't agree with that part of the statement.

_-SphagnumFromHell-_ wrote:I also recall some other highly regarded source, either the book "The Savage Garden" or the guys over at Sarracenia Northwest or somewhere similar saying that LFS is simply inferior to peat because of its tendency to get too wet too quickly. And look at half of the people on these forums! They swear by it.
Another great point! It is likely that some of you have read the discussion I had on this forum many years ago now with Joel Garner of Joel's Carnivorous Plants. At that time (and still to this day), the best looking flytraps I had ever seen were grown by Steve Doonan in New Mexico and he used the 5:3:2 (peat:silica sand:perlite) growing mix so I assumed it was the best. I was extremely skeptical of Joel's assertion that Venus flytraps grow better in the LFS. In fact, I would say I was nearly dismissive of Joel. However, I didn't entirely dismiss his experience and decided to experiment with LFS and our peat-base mix in a side-by-side comparison of the two. My experiment had 10 genetically identical plants with 5 of them planted in the peat and 5 planted in the LFS over the course of a single growing season. For me, the results were eye-opening and a big revelation. As a result, over the course of the next year or so, we repotted all of our multiple thousands of Venus flytraps into NZLFS and moved entirely away from peat for flytrap growing.

Are there some drawbacks to growing flytraps in the NZLFS? Absolutely. Is it the "best" growing medium of all time? For us in our climate along with our goal of growing as many tiny flytraps to young or young-adult size in the shortest amount of time, yes, it is the best. However, the peat-based mix certainly wins in many climates and growing situations for many growers.

In any case, please don't take disagreements to heart. They happen. Equally important is trying to keep an open mind and understand that everyone has their own ideas and experiences that shape their opinions. Those shouldn't be discredited by anyone on face value, but it is OK to question them (in a polite way) with your own thoughts from your own experiences. I do understand that someone questioning your thoughts might seem insulting but most of the time a discussion like this one will ultimately make all of us much more educated. For that, we should all be thankful that we are willing to communicate with each other! We are all getting more intelligent simply by reading this forum :D
By Copper2
Posts:  915
Joined:  Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:02 am
#353505
Ehh... back to the conversation!

I wonder if Jagasians plant actually did flower without seasonal cues? It could be possible if it got faint cues to go into a very light dormancy
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By Cross
Posts:  1395
Joined:  Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:25 pm
#353532
So I lived in NC right where vfts grow naturally. The thing is, the photo period changes way before the temperature changes. Really the lowest it gets there in temp is 30 degrees. And that's not that common. It's not the temperature that triggers dormancy.
To the second part, ok so you had some success for 2.5 years. That's not enough evidence. Have you uprooted them to check rhizomes? Are you sure these aren't originals? How many have died? How many new? How many flower stalks? What's the growth size increase? What the rate of new growth? Flytraps who'll go years without dormancy, but they will die prematurely. Thet are a bulb plant. They need the rest.

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By Benny
Location: 
Posts:  452
Joined:  Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:46 pm
#353548
True, if you (Jagasain) repot in a year or so (if the plant is still alive), there should be lots of healthy rhizomes, if your theory is correct. If not, there will be half decomposed, blackened bulbs.I

The rhizomes hold the secret!
By tommyr
Location: 
Posts:  1512
Joined:  Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:38 am
#353777
Matt wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 9:16 pm Disagree. I've tried skipping dormancy for flytraps numerous times over the last decade or so. Venus flytraps that aren't allowed a dormancy always stall growing eventually, as your (Jagasian) SD Kronos is doing now based on the new leaves and how short and compact they are becoming. It is letting you know it is strongly expecting dormancy. It will almost certainly continue to regress unless it is given a dormant period. Repotting can trick them temporarily, but they absolutely do eventually need a dormancy or they will stall out entirely.
I agree 100%. They DO need dormancy. 3 months at the least. This is a topic that has been beaten to death over the years. They will grow weaker and weaker each year they don't get dormancy. It's been shown to be true. I've actually stopped helping those who insist on growing them indoors because I got tired of arguing with them. I just tell them good luck and move on. "You can lead a horse to water......."

Edited for spelling.
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By Bob Beer
Posts:  570
Joined:  Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:39 am
#355004
I believe the issue here is that is you have them in your house with typical short daylength m in winter but you’re temperatures are high, the plant will try to grow and exhaust itself. If you give them the amount of light they need to grow (either by artificial light or by growing them in a tropical zone) then it seems you can get away without the dormancy.

As for why they haven’t spread to Jamaica, one might ask why they haven’t spread beyond the 100 square mile area around Wilmington. They can be introduced to other bogs in the area but they don’t occur there naturally. They have been introduced to a bog near Seattle and are so thick there that you can’t walk for stepping on them. Some nice flavas there too. Clearly that’s a matter of geographical obstacles.


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By Artchic528
Location: 
Posts:  612
Joined:  Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:13 pm
#355007
Bob Beer wrote:I believe the issue here is that is you have them in your house with typical short daylength m in winter but you’re temperatures are high, the plant will try to grow and exhaust itself. If you give them the amount of light they need to grow (either by artificial light or by growing them in a tropical zone) then it seems you can get away without the dormancy.

As for why they haven’t spread to Jamaica, one might ask why they haven’t spread beyond the 100 square mile area around Wilmington. They can be introduced to other bogs in the area but they don’t occur there naturally. They have been introduced to a bog near Seattle and are so thick there that you can’t walk for stepping on them. Some nice flavas there too. Clearly that’s a matter of geographical obstacles.


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The plants might grow, but they won't last very long when grown strictly indoors. They'll soon exhaust themselves regardless.

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