Page 2 of 2

Re: VFT "patches"

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:06 am
by Multiclone
I have since pollinated and germinated seed of this plant. All seed produced the patches.
Geoff

Re: VFT "patches"

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:34 pm
by Matt
Hi Geoff! It's been a while since we've seen you online. Hope all is well with you and your CP business.

Thanks for the update on the "patches" seedlings. How interesting that the seedlings also have the patchiness! That would seem to indicate that the patchy characteristic is genetic and not virus related. Though, through a quick search in Google I just learned that viruses can be passed on sexually as well. The name for this is transovarial transmission:
https://www.google.com/search?q=transov ... ion+plants

So I guess it doesn't completely absolve them from being virus infected, but it sure seems unlikely to me that a virus would be passed on sexually. Though I really don't know much about viruses or how common transovarial transmission is...

Re: VFT "patches"

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:16 pm
by Darkrai283
Thanks for letting us know and isnt there also a similar clone called DM 'spotty' now around in circulation?

Re: VFT "patches"

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:02 am
by dmagnan
Multiclone wrote:I have since pollinated and germinated seed of this plant. All seed produced the patches.
Geoff


That's awesome! Doesn't rule out a virus (certain types of viruses integrate into the genome, and could then be passed on right through sexual reporduction), but it does mean it's less likely, I think. The fact that ALL of the seedlings have spots means that, if it is a virus, it's at least stable.

I just looked up transovarial transmission: that seems to be transmission of plant viruses through multiple generations of pest insects, which I don't think would explain every seedling having patches. Or at the very least, every plant in his greenhouse would have patches.

Re: VFT "patches"

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:16 pm
by Steve_D
Hello Geoff. Thank you for posting an update about VFT "Patches." I still wouldn't have one myself, but it's interesting to know that seedlings of the plants are growing with the same characteristics.

One thing that worries me is the appearance over the last several years of quite a few patchy or spotty Venus Flytraps (at least 5 or 6 the last time I checked, about a year ago) mostly in Europe, that people have given various names to, but all look (to me) to be possibly infected with the same virus. I ask myself why these unusual blotchy-colored Venus Flytraps are showing up so often now from different sources. The most logical thing that comes to mind is that it's a virus that is being transmitted in people's private collections of Venus Flytraps as the spotted or patchy plants are traded or bought. I'm guessing the virus is transmitted by the human cultivators (using scissors to trim the plants' leaves, for example) or by insects.

So although I think "Patches" is a very interesting plant and attractively colored, I personally would still avoid it and other similarly blotchy Venus Flytraps.

If "Patches" is still around in 10 years and the blotchy Venus Flytrap epidemic ( :) ) has not increased in quantity of plants infected (I mean, many plants which also have this "unique" coloration and patterns), then I might get one. In the meantime, I'm glad it's other people and not me who are doing the experimentation. I've already dealt with plant viruses twice before and had to let a lot of plants die, and I'm not a big fan of having to sterilize cutting instruments each and every time they're used, between trimming each of thousands of Venus Flytraps.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, and these are just one person's comments, that's all. :)

Re: VFT "patches"

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:31 pm
by frog
I just wish someone would send one of these spotted plants to be tested for viruses. My guess is no one whats to know if it has a virus or not. The people selling and owning it have a lot to lose everyone else would just prefer to
say it has a virus. How many people do you think are into this hobby world wide and know one knows the truth.
How much would it cost to have a plant tested for viruses and who or what lab would one send the plant to.
Until then it's all hearsay.

Re: VFT "patches"

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:36 am
by Crash620
I agree with Steve about the viral Issue. A virus doesn't necessarily manifest in the whole plant. This issue arose in Tricyrtis flowers, but not the plant itself. When the "patches" started appearing everyone thought they were great, but the plants with the patches were tested and were contaminated with an unknown virus. The growers need to get this plant tested for everyone's protection.
http://www.perennialnursery.com/tricyrtisvirus.html

Re: VFT "patches"

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:27 pm
by Steve_D
Thanks for the link to the article, Crash620. Those tricyrtis flowers do look "virus enhanced" to me, meaning that one might guess that even before the tests were done. Viruses in plants is an interesting subject, but just like the historical "tulip mania" in which people paid entire fortunes for a plant or two "broken" (streaked and mottled) by a virus (a fact that was unknown at that time), I personally am wary of any such patchy, blotchy, streaked plants. I think it is more often a result of virus than genetics, although a truly genetic version of the blotchyness would be nice.

Re: VFT "patches"

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:41 am
by Multiclone
Just a quick post.
I do not argue over who is right or wrong in this discussion there has been plenty said on this subject in the UK forum over the years. Everyone has their individual choice on what they buy and don't buy.
I have had the 'patches' now for about 8 years and it has grown happily side by side with every other vft form I have. The theory that it is a virus transmitted by people in Europe does not apply to me. As most people know Australia has very very strict quarantine laws and the xrays can now detect plant material in envelopes, so I am told. I have never had any vft plant material sent to me from overseas at any time.
A brief rehash of 'patches' history.
A number of years ago I did a hybrid between Low Giant and Akai Ryu. I was at the time experimenting with a number of diffent growth hormones to improve the multiplication rate in TC (especially BAP) of vfts. To say the least I had some strange but interesting results. From these tests I planted out a number of thousand plants and 'patches' was just 1 plant out of quite a few thousand plants which displayed any difference. Personally I believe that the super doses of some hormones made the 'patches' in tc. Anyone who has used TDZ on vfts can attest to what that hormone does to vfts. It is not a pretty sight.
Anyhow thats my theory, and its nothing more than a theory. Maybe one day I will get it tested. I am not going out of my way to tc great masses of these. I have a few hundred planted out that will do me for quite a while.
Over the years I probably have only parted with no more than 20 plants, 10 in Australia and 10 in Europe the rest I enjoy.
Geoff

Re: VFT "patches"

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:07 pm
by Steve_D
Thank you, Geoff, for the updates, comments, history and general important documentation (or more specifically, establishing the documentation in this Forum as well as elsewhere) of the "Patches" VFT clone. :)