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By nuck
Posts:  45
Joined:  Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:44 pm
#305542
Planning on which aquatic species I want.. I heard Gibba is the most hardy, but is their any other recommendations?

I'm aware that they are usually planted in aquarium tanks but I am trying out an experiment, as I like to create self sustaining eco-systems within jars.

(You can skip this and the next anecdote as they're not important to my question)
I currently have one jar with a P. Primrose which has an unknown specie of millipede I found in Home Depot, Springtails which I also found in Home Depot and cultured myself, and finally some woodlouse which I found outside my friend's house. I usually open it to feed the Ping and promote air circulation, but now have been keeping it closed since I have introduced springtails as a food source for the ping.

I've been planning out an aquatic ecosystem for a while now and am already prepping some infusoria while I'm waiting. I'm thinking of putting some pest snails like Malaysian Trumpet snails to counteract the algae and also help stir the sand and peat around to prevent anaerobic conditions while also having the offspring act as a food source. I would also like to establish some Daphnia populations but I feel as if they would end up being wiped out by the plant as it will inevitably take over the jar, and I cannot seem to find any native Daphnia where I live. I'm unsure if I should put some nano anubias or some hornwort in the jar to help suck up the nutrients that lead to excessive algae growth, but from experience anubias does not seem to help much as it is a very slow grower and hornwort tends to be a magnet for algae in certain situations.

Any recommendations for companion plants small enough to fit in a jar would be appreciated.

This is just a guesstimate but the jar is 5" width and 7.5" height.

Table of Contents

Janurary 2018
}01/25/2018 post310240.html#p310240

February 2018
}02/08/2018 post310979.html#p310979
}02/08/2018 post310982.html#p310982
}02/09/2018 post311032.html#p311032
}02/12/2018 post311191.html#p311191 *first extinction event takes place here*
}02/20/2018 post311559.html#p311559 *Descriptive update/no pictures*
}02/24/2018 post311773.html#p311773 *end of first extinction event recorded here*

March 2018
}03/10/2018 post312394.html#p312394
}03/13/2018 post312568.html#p312568 *chronological list of events occurring during the first extinction event are recorded here*
}03/21/2018 post312859.html#p312859 *Descriptive update/no pictures*
}03/27/2018 post313055.html#p313055
}03/27/2018 post313056.html#p313056
}03/28/2018 post313077.html#p313077

April 2018
}04/07/2018 post313547.html#p313547 *format change, GIFs will replace walls of photos*
}04/08/2018 post313590.html#p313590 *extinction of MTS in Specimen Jar I noted, date of exact die off is unknown*
}04/24/2018 post314263.html#p314263

May 2018
}05/31/2018 post315987.html#p315987 *mini-update, addressing absence*

August 2018
}08/05/2018 post319575.html#p319575 *captured a triop, GIFs included*
}08/05/2018 post319587.html#p319587
}08/05/2018 post319598.html#p319598

October 2018
}09/22/2018 post322713.html#p322713 *Second Extinction Event begins here (The Great Culling)/descriptive update, no pics*
}10/05/2018 post323482.html#p323482 *Second Phase of the Great Culling | Revival of MTS species/captured an aquatic insect, GIFs included*
}10/10/2018 post323704.html#p323704 *Marks the end of the Second Extinction Event or 'The Great Culling'/Mega-update*

Links to the videos of the project!!!
01/25/2018
02/08/2018
03/27/2018
10/08/2018
Last edited by nuck on Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:31 pm, edited 24 times in total.
By nuck
Posts:  45
Joined:  Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:44 pm
#310240
3-4 months later...

Thanks for the no help, but luckily I managed things out on my own and did everything I said I did except for a few changes.. Instead of daphnia I have hordes of seed shrimp that popped up out of nowhere, along with some worms, and one cyclops. The utric I ordered introduced another species of snail, and I added a ghost shrimp for extra pop control and corpse cleaner. Here's some pics:
20180124_133853.jpg
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I circled out the worms, since they're hard to notice.
20180124_133838.jpg
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This is the largest Malaysian Trumpet snail in the jar, it created clones of itself but they're quite small.
20180124_134023.jpg
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Small Ghost Shrimp, I have experience with Macrobrachii shrimp which are very similar to Ghosties, so I should be able to keep this shrimp living long in its current conditions. Better here, than in a disease infested pet store aquarium. It loves to hang from the gibba and will feast on seed shrimp from time to time. It helps keep the water less toxic with so many organisms in a small space.
20180115_122231.jpg
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When I first added Utricularia Gibba into established eco-system. Looks ominous - 1/11/18
20180115_143141.jpg
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Seed Shrimp swarm the utric and feast on the dead or dying plant detritus that was shipped with utric. They begin to move colony from algae that was pushed onto soil, into the floating utricularia gibba jungle. Take note that most of the traps had died on transit, so the ostracods were unaware of their impending doom. The plant was shipped 12 days late, so it went without sunlight a bit long but was still surprisingly healthy, unlike my second shipment- coming up...

Fast forward around 9-11(?) days later:
20180124_133803.jpg
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20180124_133919.jpg
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The gibba has grown considerably in direct light and has reformed new traps instantly. When I had taken this picture, the small seed shrimp within the traps were still moving and alive. Here is a video as well: [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofqDtuCFHdk[/youtube]

I had also received my second shipment of utricularia g. which was a mistake, because first shipment was 12 days late so I assumed I got scammed; so I took my failed butterwort terrarium and filled it with water (had at least 100 wild springtails I cultured myself that killed themselves by running into my butterwort :roll: ). I than transferred some mature seed shrimp to the other jar and placed what was left of the new shipment inside, since this supplier decided to put utric in moist paper towel instead of a sealed bag with water (never do guys, bad practice and won't be ordering from him again). I also added along some gibba from my first shipment as backup and to mix up the gene pool of the gibba specimens, since I will be trying to flower the second gibba specimen in the old butterwort jar. The pictures will explain it better:
20180124_134056.jpg
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20180124_134102.jpg
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Specimen I is my first attempt at a self preserving aquatic eco-system, Specimen II is to flower and potentially breed my Gibba. I will most likely have to resort to monthly feedings, since the seed shrimp I introduced to the second jar never had a chance to reproduce within it; it's likely I will have to create a new culture in a different jar as a backup. Since seed shrimps aren't too bright, I don't want them to make themselves extinct like their land counterparts *cough* springtails *cough*.
20180124_134151.jpg
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Final Notes: I had attempted growing utricularia in the specimen I jar around when I first started this thread but the Gibba I had ordered had come in such a tiny little cutting that it was overrun by algae in an instant. Unfortunately I had also been shipped (for free) another string of Utricularia Vulgaris but that was overrun with algae along with my Gibba. So I just said f**k it and left the jar alone for months until something strange happened.. I noticed that after a while of being lonely, my Malaysian Trumpet snail had asexually reproduced and a couple days after that, tiny little dots started swimming around with tiny little worms.
All of a sudden I had a diverse eco-system within this tiny space and I took it upon myself to find a better vendor.. and here we are now. So thanks for looking this thread over, I feel a whole lot more accomplished knowing I did this with no help. :lol:

EDIT: Here's the video link if you missed it, since this website's youtube link is outdated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofqDtuC ... e=youtu.be
Last edited by nuck on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
nuck liked this
By riveraXVX
Posts:  1098
Joined:  Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:29 am
#310262
sounds like a cool lil project, I have a little bit of gibba from a contest giveaway here its just been sitting in a windowsill an an open container for a few months I'd like to try out something more interesting for it like this at some point. hopefully it works out well! I enjoyed the photos/descriptions and video.
By nuck
Posts:  45
Joined:  Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:44 pm
#310346
riveraXVX wrote:sounds like a cool lil project, I have a little bit of gibba from a contest giveaway here its just been sitting in a windowsill an an open container for a few months I'd like to try out something more interesting for it like this at some point. hopefully it works out well! I enjoyed the photos/descriptions and video.
Thanks for the feedback :)

I'll lend a couple recommendations but if you plan to incorporate live organisms with your gibba, I would advise to setup a different jar and wait until the biosphere has set itself up. If you can acquire some, mix a bit of cycled aquarium water with de-chlorinated distilled water. Use peat, but layer sand on top of it, and use a tray to evenly distribute water to the jar so debris won't float up everywhere.

Here's a reference to help give a better understanding on aquatic utricularia: http://www.sarracenia.com/pubs/focus5.html
By riveraXVX
Posts:  1098
Joined:  Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:29 am
#310367
I had read up a bit and preparing the "tank" if you will for the plant first and foremost seemed like the smart/proper way of doing it let everything get adjusted and going then introduce the plant and let it give it a go. so many lil projects to do with these plants so little time and focus! will check out that link also! most of this is done with the kid in mind as a supplemental teaching aid at home for science type things and she enjoys it. trying not to overload her with it though!

edit to add: when you say use a tray to evenly distribute water -- I'm struggling to understand how to fill a jar without disturbing things and picturing a tray has me a bit more confused!
riveraXVX liked this
By Grabba37
Posts:  58
Joined:  Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:17 pm
#310532
Very cool project, I love the look of u. Gibba floating in it own ecosystem. I might try this some day.
Grabba37 liked this
By nuck
Posts:  45
Joined:  Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:44 pm
#310661
riveraXVX wrote:I had read up a bit and preparing the "tank" if you will for the plant first and foremost seemed like the smart/proper way of doing it let everything get adjusted and going then introduce the plant and let it give it a go. so many lil projects to do with these plants so little time and focus! will check out that link also! most of this is done with the kid in mind as a supplemental teaching aid at home for science type things and she enjoys it. trying not to overload her with it though!

edit to add: when you say use a tray to evenly distribute water -- I'm struggling to understand how to fill a jar without disturbing things and picturing a tray has me a bit more confused!
Sorry for late reply but, it doesn't have to be a tray it can be your hand or a bottlecap. Anything that stops the water from crashing into your jar will work honestly. It's inevitable that you'll have some debris fly up but it's no biggie, it'll sink to the bottom in a couple days anyways.

P.S. I forgot to say this earlier but if you plan to keep snails or invertebrates in general, it's a good idea to add a little eggshell or cuttlebone to help give them calcium. I'm not sure if calcium negatively affects u gibba like other CP's but i haven't had any problems with eggshells. Being in distilled water for prolonged times will end up eroding their shells from lack of hardiness (distilled water is very soft and is often recommended against in aquariums).
By Huntsmanshorn
Posts:  557
Joined:  Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:32 am
#310666
FYI, according to Barry Rice, U. gibba will only flower as an affixed aquatic. That said, he admits to having trouble with suspended aquatic Urts so maybe you will have better luck.
Huntsmanshorn liked this
By nuck
Posts:  45
Joined:  Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:44 pm
#310670
Huntsmanshorn wrote:FYI, according to Barry Rice, U. gibba will only flower as an affixed aquatic. That said, he admits to having trouble with suspended aquatic Urts so maybe you will have better luck.
That's exactly why I have a second setup with the utric anchored to the soil.
By nuck
Posts:  45
Joined:  Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:44 pm
#310741
nate7891 wrote:What temps is the ambient air where you keep these?
M humidity meter says it's 83F (28C), I keep it by my shaded west-side window, and it's currently winter. When it heats up that's when things will get difficult as the temps where I live are considerably high in the summer.
7-ate-9 wrote:This is a very cool project; I hope it's successful.
Thanks. :)


Anyways on another note I went to the pet shop to get a mossball to provide further shelter and aeration, and found a nice culture of Utricularia Gramnifolia. Debating if I should try to put it in my my specimen 1 jar or if I should create a 3rd biosphere separate from the other two?
By nuck
Posts:  45
Joined:  Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:44 pm
#310886
Mawy_Plants wrote:I say on it's own then eventually introduce once you have more?
Will do that than.

Anyways unfortunately I had to let go of my shrimp since he wasn't looking too well, so I ended up just putting him in one of my aquariums. It seemed like the seed shrimp were stressing it out more than providing an extra food source.

Considering how much the Gibba catches and has grown, the seed shrimp have reproduced considerably, their population doubled- no tripled in size. So through research I have seen people tend to use guppies for ecosystems like this and I will try that out to see if it works but the drawback is, I won't be able to transfer the guppy if things go wrong, as my aquariums contain aggressive predatory shrimp species that would love to dine on unsuspecting guppies.

I don't know, I may decide against it if there's no major drawbacks of such a large population in such a small area of water.

On a sidenote, the malaysian snails are now enough in numbers that they are a daily occurrence, now it's rare to not see the cute little guys.

Will post more pictures soon.
By riveraXVX
Posts:  1098
Joined:  Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:29 am
#310901
this seems like it'd be fun to check out daily once it get's settled in. keep us updated!

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