VFT poached are returned to the wild

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SundewWolf

 
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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by SundewWolf » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:46 am

I don't see anything wrong with his overall morality. I say this because I have seen the research projects grad students and professors have done in the plant biology department at my university. Its usually a complete disaster, includes false conclusions, they have no clue what they are doing, endangered plants go to waste, etc.

Sometimes hobbyist collection is a good thing in my eyes if the "professional" world is doing nothing. I'm sure the conservation effort is great for VFTs at Redher garden and other conservation sites, but I see other studies done i.e. about endangered land snail conservation that are filled with downright stupid methodology. In fact, researchers asked me if I had any ideas on how to improve their failing captive breeding attempts, but this is data I'd like to ideally publish myself...I'm not going to hand over a completed species management plan and let them slap their name on it. On the other hand I have no official credentials to carry out an experiment, so I even if i succeeded a lot of people would criticize the project and deem it something like "irresponsible". It's kind of funny.

There's not really an easy answer because I think sometimes someone who is technically "unqualified" can do a lot of good and will benefit a species by collecting it from the wild, and returning offspring... but then again there has to be a law in place or else every novice will claim they know what they're doing, and there will be no plants left.
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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by rayneger » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:06 am

I assure u i'm not a troll, i absolutely think that poaching is wrong.
I am saying it's not a big deal if sarracenia get taken because they aren't endangered. Of course there is a natural mutant that is rare every once in a while, but is very rare. I respect these plants that are in the wild. Maybe what i meant to say was that it's not as bad... i said "AS" bad to
poach one. But it shouldn't be done and it's wrong to poach. Btw Matt i buy alot of stuff from u, so don't call me a troll for not being a troll.
I have a deep respect for these plants, and i would suggest banning these topics on your forum because i feel like this is just how people fight about religion in other forums. People have their opinions and no one respects them. If you kill these types of threads maybe people will start doing things that are less on the "Friendly Offensive" side.
All i'm saying is that we're suppost to be helping each other out, but after reading a bunch of threads with poaching, it results to swearing, name calling, and rage comments. I'm here to be very friendly and help people out. I don't like it either when you say that i'm being a troll. A troll is someone who spams comments as well will call people names and get people in to trouble. I'm here to help the community. So what if i think that taking either sphagnum moss or sarracenias from bogs is fine. ICPS does it all the time. Does that make them bad if they took plants from a bog? Alot of people collect one plant from a bog and name where it was found to start cooler cultures and cultivars. As i said before in this, I think that it is wrong to poach vfts from the wild. It makes me disgusted to know that people will steal endangered plants. But plants like sarracenia flava are easy to find and aren't endangered. I understand certain types aren't, but i mean like the all green typical variety. And taking moss isn't wrong at all. Half of the stuff i buy live are from peoples local bogs that are in a forest not owned by any government authority. What do u think created bogs... lol. As i said, I think poaching is wrong.

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rayneger

 
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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by rayneger » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:07 am

Thank u sundewwolf for helping me with what im saying btw.

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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by rayneger » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:11 am

Btw, i guess taking grass from the wild is wrong morpheus.... lol

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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by KissMegan » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:30 am

rayneger wrote:if they're typicals, i dont honestly care if they are in the wild or not. I don't see harm in taking venus fly traps from the wild...... fite me m80 if u wanna on this, dont care tho. ;-;


I would say that this is probably the reason people would think you're trolling...
And I'm hoping you realize there is only one species of Venus flytraps.. I would be more upset if what you call "typicals" in the wild disappeared rather than the disappearance of a cultivar made by a person simply because it looked cool.
Like morpheus said, taking from the wild is bad whether it's one person or a hundred.
And those people who took their specimens from the wild, again like morpheus said, were botanists, and usually had to get permission on what they could or could not collect, which would usually be seeds or a cutting etc.
You said yourself you expected to get hammered on, and I don't think making more arrogant comments in response really helped your case much.
Unless I was a scientist who had a vast knowledge of a plant and the environment it grew in, endangered or not, I would not feel comfortable taking a plant from there if I was not sure what the consequences would be. Our world has created a system where if one thing goes missing, it can leave a devastating effect.
There is a reason for every plant and animal and living thing on this planet, and when one grows too much or disappears it can create chaos.
Take Florida for example, they over hunted anacondas - which were the only natural predator to alligators (they would eat baby alligators and eggs) - and now there is a huge uncontrollable population of alligators.
Everything we mess with in nature has an effect. I'd suggest that having an arrogant and almost ignorant attitude is not the key to helping situations like these.
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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by rayneger » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:37 am

I know they all started from typicals. But i am still saying that people argue too much on this topic.

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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by rayneger » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:40 am

and btw kiss, alot of people that are uncertified do alot of good for the plant community, so u cant say that there certified so its ok.
Its like a police pulling a gun in a restaurant, but then they say "ITS OK, WERE POLICE OFFICERS. WE CAN DO IT" lol. i guess that is a stupid example, but it's still the same morals and aspects.

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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by KissMegan » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:01 am

I think you're back tracking a lot and not really reading through what people are discussing...
I didn't say that botanists collecting specimens is good or bad, but they do it in a way that is the least devastating most of the times and usually are doing it to research and benefit the plant.
I'm not saying people who aren't botanists are necessarily doing bad, no doubt they have done a lot to discover new things too. But at the same time it's a gamble because they could have no effect or they could have a damaging effect and they wouldn't know.
I don't really understand your police officer example.. police officers undergo massive amounts of training, like a scientist does tons of research and studies... so they should be able to do whatever they're doing effectively, in the least damaging way, and in the benefit to the people.
Sufficient to say police officers jobs are much different than botanists but that's not really something to get into.
I don't really think anyone is arguing about anything here, just trying to explain why random people taking plants from nature isn't the best thing to do.
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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by rayneger » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:22 am

i never said in anything that i love poaching, or etc.
i am just saying that i dont mind if people take sarracenia flava normal var. because they aren't rare. And i used the police officer thing as a reference.

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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by KissMegan » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:56 am

rayneger wrote:if they're typicals, i dont honestly care if they are in the wild or not.


..We were talking about flytraps and you specifically mentioned not caring about typicals being taken in nature.

rayneger wrote: I don't see harm in taking venus fly traps from the wild......


You mentioned flavas later to cover up, but don't backtrack and say you didn't say venus flytraps. And there IS harm in taking EVEN ONE endangered plant from nature (yes if you didn't know, venus flytraps are considered endangered).

Like I said earlier, you don't seem to really read what people are saying to you. And it's kind of silly that you're trying to cover up for what you texted out and wrote. If you're going to say something, especially in the brash way you went about it in the beginning of this thread, then own up to it.

That's all I have to say here, it seems that I'm getting no where.
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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by rayneger » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:08 pm

I didn't use flavas to cover up. The only thing i said about vfts taken from the wild was that i don't mind if they're taken by non experienced growers that don't have a liscense. I believe that people can do good things and help rebuild the community by taking a few from the wild, propogating more, and getting seeds. After that they should bring them back. You don't have to be a botanist to help the community. I think that is what your trying to get. As well you are trying to egg people on. Not only that you are now being a little rude in what your saying. Keep it calm if we continue this topic.

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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by rayneger » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:11 pm

Btw, Im not owning up to anything. Because i did nothing to own up to.
Me saying that i don't mind if people take a few from the wild isn't a big deal if they propogate them. I'm trying to be kind in these topics while you are getting a little out of hand. Isn't it ok to have out own idea's and opinions? I guess if its you world its your way or the high way, lol.

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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by killerplants4realz » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:51 pm

Everyone Ignore rayneger. Poaching is wrong no matter plant or animal. I also do not like trolls all creepy and living under bridges and evadently we have a troll named rayneger that has no life.

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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by SundewWolf » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:06 pm

KissMegan wrote:
I don't really understand your police officer example.. police officers undergo massive amounts of training, like a scientist does tons of research and studies... so they should be able to do whatever they're doing effectively, in the least damaging way, and in the benefit to the people.


This is rarely the case. I repeat: THIS IS RARELY THE CASE! Like I said, the work I've seen done at undergrad, grad, and doctoral levels is all the same: atrocious. You would consider the published reports fiction if you were actually there seeing their projects happen. Please don't trust someone just because they have a degree.
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Re: VFT poached are returned to the wild

by rayneger » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:22 pm

killer, first u didn't read anything i read. As well who is the trash? Maybe you? You blatentley saying that is wrong. As well, we all have out own opinions. You are nothing but a troll to say that, as well you are acting like an immature 8 year old killer. Maybe you should be the one ignored.
Freedom of speech for both of us. As well, i might as well put all your plants back in the wild. Because they all started from the ones we brought back from the wild you idiot. AS WELL A TROLL IS SOMEONE WHO PRANKS, YOU IMMATURE 2 YEAR OLD. ARE YOU THAT IGNORANT????? YOU DREW ME OVER THE BEND WITH THIS COMMENT.
I NEVER SAID THAT POACHING IS RIGHT. I SAID TAKING PLANTS THAT AREN'T ENDANGERED ARE FINE. I HAVE MY OWN OPINIONS AND YOU HAVE TO RESPECT THAT.

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