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By Lotus
Posts:  12
Joined:  Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:49 pm
#384660
Hello, so I watched this video https://youtu.be/0vTrvqblNh0, here it shows an experiment with flowers and grounding, clearly the grounded flower lived and seems much healthier, there are also studies that suggest grounding to be very healing for humans also such as this one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378297/

My question is this, I use a copper cable inside the water plate where my venus flytraps are, is there a chance copper can leak inside the water and damage the plants? Just wondering.
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By ChefDean
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#384663
Yes, copper is toxic to plants. Most normal plants would probably be OK, but carnivorous plants are more sensitive. The copper ions released into the water would likely kill them before too long.
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By Lotus
Posts:  12
Joined:  Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:49 pm
#384673
Also I asked someone and he said that they use copper tubes for water supply, I don't think copper leaks in the water because that could be an issue
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By ChefDean
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#384687
Science lesson kids, gather 'round.
Why do you feel you need to ground them? No other grower I have encountered has ever said, "You know? If only I had grounded my plants...".
Copper pipes are used to deliver water to houses, yes, but we're not plants. While excessive copper is toxic and can cause problems, even death. It is also an essential mineral used in many aspects of our cardiovascular system.
For people, the upper safe limit is considered to be 10 mg of copper consumed per day, with a recommended intake of less than 1 mg per day. Even in houses that still have copper pipes (pipes are transitioning to PEX piping), the water isn't acidic enough to draw the copper ions out in any appreciable concentration unless the water system isn't used for an extended period of time, and the water doesn't move. Then it might be a problem.
With normal soil, a healthy copper amount is less than 50 mg per dry kg, but the plant isn't taking up all of the copper as its roots aren't in contact with all of the soil.
Where carnivorous plants evolved to live in nutrient poor soils, including soils lacking in trace metals, the copper ions that will be shed into the standing water from a (in my opinion unnecessary) copper grounding cable could negatively contribute to the long term health of the plant.
Although plants in situ are naturally grounded, there is ample evidence in billions upon billions of potted plants worldwide showing that a plant performs just fine without a potentially toxic metal connecting its water source to the earth.
However, in the end, it's your plant. If you want to rely on a YouTube video (using cut flowers, but no evidence if they were all cut together, or if the one that was grounded was cut two days after the others) and a single article (albeit an article from a definitely credible source), do your thing baby!
By Lotus
Posts:  12
Joined:  Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:49 pm
#384693
Hey thanks for your anwer, I will do it and report back to you with progress, Ive heard people that said that when they ground them, their flytraps can survive even snow, there is evidence with plenty of studies but this topic is not well knows and no university has done research on grounding with plants, although it's really vital for humans, thank you for answering I really appreciate it, the copper rod is not touching the soil or the sphagnum, its just in the water, but maybe the water goes acidic? What if I leave a tiny bit of the copper in there, anyway, time will tell.
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By optique
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#384695
Lotus wrote:their flytraps can survive even snow
Snow could not harm a flytrap. Snow protects flytraps from wind stopping frost burn.

Copper it self is deadly to VFT's even small amounts in the water, but it is not the only conductive material. I am sure there is something that is both flytrap safe and conductive if you spend the time to look for it.
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By ChefDean
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#384704
Lotus wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:09 pmthe copper rod is not touching the soil or the sphagnum, its just in the water, but maybe the water goes acidic? What if I leave a tiny bit of the copper in there, anyway, time will tell.
The media itself is acidic, and, since it's sitting in water, the water is acidic. Copper in the water, peat, or sphagnum would all likely have the same result; a slow death.
But, your plant, you do you.
By Lotus
Posts:  12
Joined:  Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:49 pm
#384715
Yeah if copper leaks, it can damage the plants for sure, so what other materials could I use? Steel is conductive maybe, could that be harmful?
By Lotus
Posts:  12
Joined:  Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:49 pm
#384717
Ok I found out that stainless steel is conductive and does not leak in to the water, also our spoons and forks are stainless steel, so I think I found an alternative maybe :?:
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By Supercazzola
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Joined:  Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:57 am
#384718
Look, plants grow in space and there is no natural ground on the International Space Station. Spend your time identifying what it is you are trying to combat by grounding the plants, and find a more sensible way. As others have posted, look at where these things have adapted to grow in nature, and emulate that as best as possible. If you feel keeping them in pots makes you at a disadvantage, then place them in the ground. Then you have no excuse for not having “grounded” plants.
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By ChefDean
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Joined:  Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:44 am
#384719
Stainless steel is better, less reactive, but not necessarily safe. All metals, just by their very nature, will leach elements in an acidic environment. These plants grow in an acidic environment. In this case, you're trading copper ions (which are definitely more toxic) for iron, chromium, and nickel ions being introduced. However, nickel is a known carcinogen.
Yes, stainless steel is used in many applications surrounding food, including utensils that you put in your mouth. But that momentary contact vs weeks or months of sitting in an acidic environment do not come close for a relevant comparison.
I guess the big question is, at least in my mind, why do you feel that grounding the plants is necessary? Billions upon billions of living and thriving potted plants prove that it is absolutely unnecessary.
Don't get me wrong, they're your plants to do with what you wish, but I can find very little evidence to support this claim that grounding is beneficial. The few articles I do find are laced with ads for ready made grounding devices you can purchase, give instructions on how to make grounding devices to plug into an outlet (yikes! DANGEROUS!), give references to "experiments" conducted, but give no data about the before, during, and after, or refer to people they claim are experts on the subject, but give no links to their online information, nor citations to their published works, and none of them have any mention of this being applied to carnivorous plants. That is the main focus of your question, and there is plenty of published evidence to, 1. support that these elements are toxic to carnivorous plants, and, 2. these elements will leach out in an acidic environment.
I'm not saying it's BS, but I'm getting a feeling that this is the equivalent to the ads for "X-Ray glasses" that used to be on cereal boxes when I was a kid.
If you can conduct and document an experiment that proves the benefits of grounding your potted plant, great. You'll be ahead of the vague claims of success I could find.
Good luck.
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By Panman
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Joined:  Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:41 pm
#384730
optique wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:21 pm To get good results you have to wear a bra on your head like in weird science.
Man, the pot even got bigger! :lol:
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