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Ask questions about how to grow and care for Venus Flytraps

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By BobbYoung
Posts:  6
Joined:  Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:16 pm
#371557
I’ve used fertilizers like seaweed and bat guano to pretty good success but how about using microbes? Would cps be too sensitive or react negatively? Microbes are used and talked about heavily in the cannabis world so could/would it work for cps? Just throwing it out there. Appreciate you guys!
By BobbYoung
Posts:  6
Joined:  Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:16 pm
#371596
Sorry if I didn’t explain very well. I’m asking about microorganisms. There’s a popular mix called Recharge made by Real Growers that you apply when you water. It contains 4 glomus (fungi),4 bacillus(bacteria), 2 trichoderma(fungi),kelp, molasses, humic acid, amino acid, and fulvic acid. It’s very well received in the cannabis world and I was wondering if it would be the same in our creepy/ beautiful world of cps. Sorry for this lengthy reply, I hope this will shed some light on this topic and be beneficial to all of us. Thank you Matt and Leah you guys are awesome!
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By Matt
Location: 
Posts:  22327
Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
#371600
Yes, I suspect that those sorts of things would work well for larger CPs like Sarracenia, Heliamphora, and Cephalotus. Perhaps for Nepenthes too. I have tried that sort of thing on flytraps too, but haven't noticed any real difference. The best thing you can do for growing great flytraps is keep them in very strong lighting (but watch out for giving them too much and adjust as necessary), keep the humidity high if possible (>60% relative humidity for optimal growth), keep the temperatures moderate (between 75-85°F for optimal growth), and ensure that they catch bugs or are fed very regularly. They will grow like crazy in those conditions!
By BobbYoung
Posts:  6
Joined:  Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:16 pm
#371617
Keeping to the basics and letting cps do their thing/eat bugs seems to be the best method but experimenting is fun. Thank you for your time and knowledge it is greatly appreciated. Keep up the great work and your YouTube channel is motivational.
By hungry carnivores
#371623
BobbYoung wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:06 pm Sorry if I didn’t explain very well. I’m asking about microorganisms. There’s a popular mix called Recharge made by Real Growers that you apply when you water. It contains 4 glomus (fungi),4 bacillus(bacteria), 2 trichoderma(fungi),kelp, molasses, humic acid, amino acid, and fulvic acid. It’s very well received in the cannabis world and I was wondering if it would be the same in our creepy/ beautiful world of cps. Sorry for this lengthy reply, I hope this will shed some light on this topic and be beneficial to all of us. Thank you Matt and Leah you guys are awesome!
You want to check some labels, as those makers use all of these flashy "statistics" to make baloney claims about their product. I don't care if companies put "amino acids" in the soil, since these are just going to be broken down and used somewhere else. Repeat after me, there is NO way to ensure that amino acids will do a certain thing somewhere. So if you see them claim that their amino acids promote flowering, a red flag.

Secondly, I think the thing making them grow fast is the kelp and molasses, as well as the organic acids. Using peat gives enough humic and fulvic acid so don't bother with that. Humic acid is the tannin-like brown stuff that washes off peat. MaxSea does Kelp and Mollasses just fine.

Lastly, the bacteria may offer benefit to plants like Helis and Neps which are grown in sterilized media indoors, but a flytrap outdoors has already been colonized by bacteria and fungi.

Stay away from products designed for weed, especially special "formulated things". I find that you can make them yourself for 1/10 the cost and the same effects. They are targeting weed growers who want to make the "most bud/yield" on "rare strains", and essentially trying to sucker them in, in most cases.

That said, if you do your research and find benefit you could not make yourself, go right ahead. I'd love to hear your results!
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By Matt
Location: 
Posts:  22327
Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
#371632
hungry carnivores wrote:Lastly, the bacteria may offer benefit to plants like Helis and Neps which are grown in sterilized media indoors, but a flytrap outdoors has already been colonized by bacteria and fungi.
This is true and it's actually true for any soil unless you sterilize it before use -- it will be colonized with a ton of bacteria! In fact, the entire surface of the planet is covered with bacteria! Anyone who has done just a bit of tissue culture work knows this fact well!

In some cases, such as in older and anaerobic soil, for example, the bacteria can be harmful to some plants. Isn't it theorized that the bad soil bacteria that is the root cause of sudden Cephalotus death? Same for Heliamphora?

And I believe that most Trichoderma and mycorrhiza drenches introduce new bacteria to the soil, right? And those Trichoderma bacteria are ones that help protect the roots of plants from disease (bad bacteria) and grow in direct contact with the roots of plants, aiding in nutrient uptake as well. At least that's what I've read over the years. Here's a quick Google result from an academic institution that says much the same:
http://ipm.uconn.edu/documents/raw2/Tri ... play=print
hungry carnivores wrote:Stay away from products designed for weed, especially special "formulated things". I find that you can make them yourself for 1/10 the cost and the same effects. They are targeting weed growers who want to make the "most bud/yield" on "rare strains", and essentially trying to sucker them in, in most cases.
Totally agree with all of the bogus fertilizer and other plant growth products that are available now! There have always been some but the number has dramatically increased in the last few years with the legalization of cannabis in many states and many more growers out there trying to "maximize yield."
By hungry carnivores
#371634
Matt wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:32 pm
hungry carnivores wrote:Lastly, the bacteria may offer benefit to plants like Helis and Neps which are grown in sterilized media indoors, but a flytrap outdoors has already been colonized by bacteria and fungi.
This is true and it's actually true for any soil unless you sterilize it before use -- it will be colonized with a ton of bacteria! In fact, the entire surface of the planet is covered with bacteria! Anyone who has done just a bit of tissue culture work knows this fact well!

In some cases, such as in older and anaerobic soil, for example, the bacteria can be harmful to some plants. Isn't it theorized that the bad soil bacteria that is the root cause of sudden Cephalotus death? Same for Heliamphora?

And I believe that most Trichoderma and mycorrhiza drenches introduce new bacteria to the soil, right? And those Trichoderma bacteria are ones that help protect the roots of plants from disease (bad bacteria) and grow in direct contact with the roots of plants, aiding in nutrient uptake as well. At least that's what I've read over the years. Here's a quick Google result from an academic institution that says much the same:
http://ipm.uconn.edu/documents/raw2/Tri ... play=print
hungry carnivores wrote:Stay away from products designed for weed, especially special "formulated things". I find that you can make them yourself for 1/10 the cost and the same effects. They are targeting weed growers who want to make the "most bud/yield" on "rare strains", and essentially trying to sucker them in, in most cases.
Totally agree with all of the bogus fertilizer and other plant growth products that are available now! There have always been some but the number has dramatically increased in the last few years with the legalization of cannabis in many states and many more growers out there trying to "maximize yield."
Ivan Danou reported that in high temps, or weird conditions, trichoderma begins to eat the roots of helis. So it's definitely something that is an expert-only use. I have never used said trichoderma with helis, but the neps I have put it on (of the same species) showed no improvement in root health during repotting. Yes, actually many of my failed TC looked like trichoderma/micorrhyzal fungi infestation. So they're everywhere.
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By Matt
Location: 
Posts:  22327
Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
#371635
hungry carnivores wrote:Ivan Danou reported that in high temps, or weird conditions, trichoderma begins to eat the roots of helis.
That's very interesting. I've never tried using it on Heliamphora. They seem to be immune to most root problems if they are planted in a very loose soil. Cephalotus, on the other hand, seem to have more issues with collapsing regardless of what potting soil they are in or how well they are cared for.

hungry carnivores wrote:Yes, actually many of my failed TC looked like trichoderma/mycorrhizal fungi infestation. So they're everywhere.
That's interesting. For me, the most common tissue culture contaminants are yeast (I can tell by the smell) and some sort of milky-white bacteria. Occasionally some gray mold will come in on VFT and Sarr seeds too. I would have no idea how to identify Trichoderma/mycorrhiza by appearance though, so maybe the milky-white bacteria is them?
By hungry carnivores
#371636
Matt wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:20 pm
hungry carnivores wrote:Ivan Danou reported that in high temps, or weird conditions, trichoderma begins to eat the roots of helis.
That's very interesting. I've never tried using it on Heliamphora. They seem to be immune to most root problems if they are planted in a very loose soil. Cephalotus, on the other hand, seem to have more issues with collapsing regardless of what potting soil they are in or how well they are cared for.

hungry carnivores wrote:Yes, actually many of my failed TC looked like trichoderma/mycorrhizal fungi infestation. So they're everywhere.
That's interesting. For me, the most common tissue culture contaminants are yeast (I can tell by the smell) and some sort of milky-white bacteria. Occasionally some gray mold will come in on VFT and Sarr seeds too. I would have no idea how to identify Trichoderma/mycorrhiza by appearance though, so maybe the milky-white bacteria is them?

Gram stain, and cultures helped me to give a guess at the family (trichs). The mycorrhyzal fungus is pretty much that silky white fungus that grows. Yeah, they are milky and white.
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By BobbYoung
Posts:  6
Joined:  Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:16 pm
#371663
Thanks hungry carnivores for the info. The cannabis nutrient companies have flashy and bright labels with exaggerated claims. Reminds me of the fitness industry with “get the best pump and unbelievably gains.” Bunch of crap. My curiosity was with the beneficial microorganisms. Thanks for shedding light on a topic that I think should be discussed. I love cps but some take years to mature like nepenthes.
By hungry carnivores
#371672
BobbYoung wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:21 pm Thanks hungry carnivores for the info. The cannabis nutrient companies have flashy and bright labels with exaggerated claims. Reminds me of the fitness industry with “get the best pump and unbelievably gains.” Bunch of crap. My curiosity was with the beneficial microorganisms. Thanks for shedding light on a topic that I think should be discussed. I love cps but some take years to mature like nepenthes.
Exactly like fitness supplements. I see the ads everywhere - online, in the news, even SciAm (a respected journal). There includes - A machine that can change the bond angle of water from 108.5 to 120 with no regards to the fact that the electron geometry of water is tetrahedral (electrons in 4 directions). There are also pills that "somehow" grow muscle tissue with proteins, as if they won't be used for other things like fingernails, hair, and just digested. Watch out. Advertisers try to "super-science" things to "outsmart" the general population. Just because people say long names like 1,1 dichloro-2-Trinitro-xyl-3-yne doesn't mean they're correct. I proved this point by naming a molecule that does not even exist using standard naming conventions. Be wary. Anything that looks too scientific for the layperson to understand is made to scam, in most cases.

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