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By alecStewart1
Posts:  208
Joined:  Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:45 pm
#430229
I saw this post on Reddit, and someone in the comments mentions coconut coir as an alternative to peat moss. I'd use long fiber sphagnum, but I already have some typical flytraps in it that I can already tell it's going to be a pain re-potting them this weekend/the coming week.

I'd be curious as to what y'alls thoughts are on this.
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By Nepenthes0260
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Joined:  Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:59 am
#430253
Some growers use coco choir or coco choir-like products with success, for Nepenthes, specifically. Iirc @nepenthesgod on Instagram has a lot of plants in a coco choir-based mix. Mike King in the UK has also found effective peat alternatives for Sarracenia and grows his plants in a completely inorganic media.

Meanwhile in the US a decent amount of sarr growers use 100% peat for potting their plants. In fact, I’ve been experimenting with 100% peat myself with a few repots this winter.

Personally I think the comparatively small amounts of peat we use to maintain our plants are minuscule contributors to the overall unsustainable peat harvesting issue. In fact, it could be argued that, in certain situations, the value of maintaining rare plant genetics ex-situ outweighs the diminutive amount of peat consumed.
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By Intheswamp
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#430254
I would think that large producers of potting soils (MIracle-Gro, Sunshine, etc.,) use a lot of peat...whereas carnivorous plant growers, even the big commercial growers, use very little compared to the potting soil processors.

Nepenthes0260, so sarrs do better in a more soggy, less-draining mix? I'm still trying to figure out how to grow my couple of pots of sarrs seedlings. :?
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By MikeB
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Joined:  Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:13 pm
#430268
Nepenthes0260 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:14 pm Meanwhile in the US a decent amount of sarr growers use 100% peat for potting their plants. In fact, I’ve been experimenting with 100% peat myself with a few repots this winter.
I'm not a fan of potting Sarracenia in 100% peat moss. It forms a very dense soil that doesn't breathe well. Lots of perlite and/or coarse sand improves drainage and oxygen flow to the roots.
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By nimbulan
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Joined:  Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:03 pm
#430272
I'm glad I don't live in the UK because I don't know if I could actually successfully grow some of my plants without peat. I've never worried about the environmental impact since the peat harvesting in North America is pretty sustainable and specialty uses like us CP hobbyists are just a fraction of a percent of peat consumption. Regular potting soil is where the vast majority of it goes and it really has no business being added to those mixes.
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By Intheswamp
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Joined:  Wed May 04, 2022 2:28 pm
#430285
When I first started tinkering around with CPs last summer I looked into using pine tree debris. It seemed that others had ran a semi-test of it a few years ago but it seems it kind of fizzled out or maybe just was a dud. Down here I do see patches of sphagnum moss that grows in close proximity to sundews and usually the sphagnum is a clue that the depth of the sphagnum has been very shallow...creating a very shallow "sphagnum bog". One characteristic that I've seen that is shared by every spot I've seen this at (and it's only maybe a half-dozen areas I've id'd so far) is that they are included within the realms of a pine forest. I might just have to do some experimenting on my own this year. Crumbled, semi-rotted pine debris, with some perlite or sand. Maybe bake the pine debris in a solar oven or microwave to kill possible pathogens or plant-eater-critters. Maybe...
By alecStewart1
Posts:  208
Joined:  Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:45 pm
#430293
So from what I gather here so far is that this is a slight misstep by the UK government. If companies that make potting soils, that for some reason include peat moss in their mixtures (which I also gather that isn't necessary), would cut back their use of peat moss this wouldn't be perceived as an issue, yes?

To be fair, at one point the UK government suggested, or maybe they've already started, "re-wilding" parts of the UK: basically meaning cutting back on any building of housing (even though the UK is having an issues with a shortage of homes), farming land (the UK has been worried about food shortages the past 2-ish years) or infrastructure in some parts of the UK to let nature take over, as well as introducing certain wildlife into the UK. Unfortunately the wildlife suggested to bring back isn't just, say, harmless small birds or types of trees, it also includes wolves and wild boars. Those of us in some parts of the US know what trouble wild boars are so why the UK needs them, I don't even think the people suggesting "re-wilding" know why they should introduce big and mean wild boars to the country side.

Not to delve too much into politics, but the government of the Netherlands at one point was worried about their bogs due to farming, which I imagine is already pretty heavily regulated, and so part of the proposed solution was to...kill off a third of the cattle and limiting the amount of cattle Dutch farmers could own. Needless to say, the Dutch farmers didn't take kindly to this.

Anyway while I wouldn't mind looking into other substrates besides peat moss, I don't think for my uses cases it's something to really be bothered about. I would be interested in how well some plants would grow in a quality cocount coir.
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By Nepenthes0260
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#430298
MikeB wrote:
Nepenthes0260 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:14 pm Meanwhile in the US a decent amount of sarr growers use 100% peat for potting their plants. In fact, I’ve been experimenting with 100% peat myself with a few repots this winter.
I'm not a fan of potting Sarracenia in 100% peat moss. It forms a very dense soil that doesn't breathe well. Lots of perlite and/or coarse sand improves drainage and oxygen flow to the roots.
In the Southeast I've heard of growers having issues with the exact same thing. However, up in the PNW, many large growers (Mike Wang, Steve Galic, and Calen Hall, just to name a few) have grown spectacular plants in 100% peat. I have a feeling the cool nights of the area (even in summer we get down to ~50 F) helps prevent the rot experienced with pure peat in the South.
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By Nepenthes0260
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#430299
Intheswamp wrote:I would think that large producers of potting soils (MIracle-Gro, Sunshine, etc.,) use a lot of peat...whereas carnivorous plant growers, even the big commercial growers, use very little compared to the potting soil processors.

Nepenthes0260, so sarrs do better in a more soggy, less-draining mix? I'm still trying to figure out how to grow my couple of pots of sarrs seedlings. :?
Yes, I grow most of my Sarracenia seedlings in 100% peat, or with just a little silica sand mixed in. Sometimes (especially for very young seedlings) a particularly chunky perlite mix stunts root establishment in my experience.
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By nimbulan
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Joined:  Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:03 pm
#430316
Camden wrote:This only means one thing...
We have 11 months to buy up a lifetime supply of peat moss.
And to find somewhere to store it, completely dry and out of the sun or it'll be unusable after a few years.
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By Nepenthes0260
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#430319
I'd be cautious with that!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CWAJ6pKrCdC ... _copy_link

(And for those who don't have Instagram):

A little PSA for all growers out there. Tonight I had a fire at my farm... started by a bale of peat moss spontaneously combusting. I didn’t believe the fire marshal at first, it just seemed impossible. But yes, under certain conditions a bale of peat can start on fire on its own. A quick Google search and you’ll find tons more info on how it’s possible. Be safe out there and make sure you store your peat bone dry and away from anything even remotely flammable.

No major damage, no plant losses, just some trashed shade cloth and several bales of peat with plastic partially burned off. I guess that’s what I get for hoarding peat.
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By steve booth
Posts:  1221
Joined:  Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:15 am
#430325
Short answer - Yes we should, unfortunately I don’t think that there is any such thing as sustainable peat extraction, Sphagnum grows very slowly taking about 10 years to make 1cm of peat, your average bog taking thousands of years to make, so a bale of peat will potentially take hundreds of years of growth to replace.
Peat bogs in actual fact store twice as much carbon as all the world's trees, but start to release this as soon as they are drained for peat extraction. This realisation will be coming to all nations eventually, as the comprehension of how much carbon storage is being destroyed by extracting peat becomes a major issue for climate change, not to mention the inevitable habitat loss and destruction of wetlands that it occasions.
Peat has been a subject of debate over here in the UK for many years, and a lot of the best UK growers are in fact Peat free, Mike King for instance uses a mix of pine bark and granite grit and has done for years now, Stephen Morely has been peat free for even longer, using mainly coir. For those interested here are a couple of links that may be of assistance.
https://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.p ... ltivation/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/608908553054189/

Cheers
Steve
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