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By TrapsAndDews
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#411785
What are the differences between D. spatulata and D. tokaiensis? I know tokaiensis is a hybrid between spatulata and rotundifolia, but I want to know what their differences are in appearance. Also, does anyone have any pictures of them side by side? I always get confused when I see a picture of one of them, trying to figure out if it is spatulata or tokaiensis.
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By thepitchergrower
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#411787
A lot of the "spatulata" in cultivation is actually tokaiensis (which adds to the confusion). Tokaiensis leaves broaden towards the lamina, and are more rounded.
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By Nepenthes0260
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#411835
Tokaiensis is a naturally occurring taxon believed to be a species of hybrid origin between spat and rotundifolia. Tokaiensis generally has more rounded lamina and pronounced stipules compared to pure spatulata, which has less obvious “lamina” and “petiole” zones, and the glands tend to travel up a bit farther on the leaf. Spat is also considerably more widespread in-situ than tok.
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By TrapsAndDews
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#411838
Nepenthes0260 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:57 pm Tokaiensis is a naturally occurring taxon believed to be a species of hybrid origin between spat and rotundifolia. Tokaiensis generally has more rounded lamina and pronounced stipules compared to pure spatulata, which has less obvious “lamina” and “petiole” zones, and the glands tend to travel up a bit farther on the leaf. Spat is also considerably more widespread in-situ than tok.
Travel up farther which way? If I get you right, the plant is a spatulata if there is dew on the petiole, and if there is no dew on the petiole, then it's a tokaiensis.
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By TrapsAndDews
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#411839
I looked at pictures of tokaiensis and spatulata, and I still can't see the differences. There are so many forms of spatulata (not talking about tokaiensis) that all look different from each other. Also, lots of spatulatas seem to look exactly like tokaiensis, and to me, some of them even look like rotundifolia.
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By ChefDean
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#411840
TrapsAndDews wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:23 pm I looked at pictures of tokaiensis and spatulata, and I still can't see the differences. There are so many forms of spatulata (not talking about tokaiensis) that all look different from each other. Also, lots of spatulatas seem to look exactly like tokaiensis, and to me, some of them even look like rotundifolia.
That's because of the misidentification of both spats and toks that permeate the hobby. You have to do your own research and, in a few cases, make your best, educated guess.
In many cases, it may be a tok that got OP crossed with a spat, or the reverse, so it shows prominent characteristics of both.
In many cases, it may be more appropriate to simply label it as D. damnifiknow.
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By Nepenthes0260
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#411842
Spatulata is insanely variable, which does make it sometimes difficult to keep them separate. Here’s a good example of a Queensland spat compared to tokaiensis. One of the most notable differences is a longer stretch of tentacles on the leaf, and less defined petiole/lamina zones.

Interestingly, many of the New Zealand pure spats look superficially similar to tokaiensis (pronounced stipules, large lamina, etc.). Location info really helps when determining the ID of a plant!
Attachments:
Queensland spat
Queensland spat
350A4CA7-D2D2-48EF-8962-E28935CF1945.jpeg (4.4 MiB) Viewed 736 times
Tokaiensis
Tokaiensis
AD10991A-AF32-4C17-A645-734CBE493BD6.jpeg (106.5 KiB) Viewed 736 times
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By Nepenthes0260
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#411843
And now here’s a plant in my collection from Mt. Arthur, NZ to defy everything previously said about spat vs. tok :lol:

I’ve noticed the alpine NZ spats tend to be quite slow growers forming compact rosettes (a trend seen with many alpine CPs). The complete opposite of tokaiensis in that regard at least!
Attachments:
spat Mt. Arthur, NZ
spat Mt. Arthur, NZ
D44811E1-A836-49A1-89C1-BD61E364E8E3.jpeg (587.56 KiB) Viewed 736 times
By Bug_cemetery
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#411878
These are supposed to be tok (left) and spat (right) both from RCP
Bonus question- if these are indoor grown but this close to each other and producing stalks at the same time do the seeds need to be labeled OP?
Attachments:
85B50C60-3290-4627-BC1D-6D56D17F0AC2.jpeg
85B50C60-3290-4627-BC1D-6D56D17F0AC2.jpeg (76.25 KiB) Viewed 727 times
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By Nepenthes0260
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#411888
Those look to be labeled correctly! Jose (rainbowCP) is an awesome dude and reputable seller. :D

If it’s in an enclosed environment I think it would be safe to assume they’re selfed, but if there are possible pollinators flying around you may want to grow them out just to make sure.
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