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By NightRaider
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Joined:  Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:01 am
#393918
So near the end of October, I harvested and immediately sowed a few dozen seeds from my brevifolia from Meadowview. I started to wonder if something was up when I hadn't seen anything by around the 3 week mark, but now it's been right around 6 weeks with absolutely no sign of germination. Luckily I saved a packet of seeds and still have one adult plant and one leaf cutting that struck after the flowering plant died so I'm not in a bind or anything, but still I'm pretty disappointed. Anyway, everything I'd read till now about brevifolia said that they don't need stratification, however I'm wondering if anyone knows if there are any forms/locations that actually do benefit from it? I know they naturally range all the way up into Virginia (which is also where Meadowview is located) where they would be exposed to fairly heavy freezes, which makes me wonder. Anyway, I have the rest of my 40 or so seeds floating in a test tube right now, so if I don't see anything from them in a couple weeks I'll chuck them in the fridge for a few weeks just to see. I really can't imagine any other reason they would be having issues, since they were indoors and shouldn't have had any chance to get cross-pollinated to make sterile seed, the pods appeared to be fully developed and were split open when I harvested them, and I just germinated a couple other species from the seed bank in the same tray alongside them.
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By MikeB
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#393983
If those seeds came from a northern parent, then they probably require cold stratification (if they came from a Gulf-coast parent, then I'd say "probably not"). Don't give up on them yet. Put the seed pot outside if you can and let it ride out the winter. You might get a nice surprise in the spring.
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By NightRaider
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#393985
Yeah I'm definitely not complaining if I happened to get some cold hardy ones that I might could leave out year-round here, I just didn't know that this could be a possibility with any of the non hibernacula-forming warm temperates. But yeah, since I have 3 pots of them I'll probably bag and chuck one or two in the fridge for a couple months and put the rest outside with my cold temperates just to compare in case I get anything out of them. With any luck, maybe these will end up being an interesting form for the seed bank, but who knows.
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By DesertPat
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Joined:  Mon May 20, 2013 10:42 pm
#394029
I've had several various batches of fresh seeds take 6-8 weeks to germinate before, long after I was sure they would never do anything. My advise it to keep taking care of them for a few more weeks and see what happens, you may be surprised.

If they do happen to be a northern strain, maybe stick them out over winter and keep the pot moist? Can't hurt to try...

Patrick
By Huntsmanshorn
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Joined:  Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:32 am
#394031
For me, brevifolia seeds germinate a lot faster if they are kept warm. Try upping the temps into the 80s and see what happens.
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By NightRaider
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#394032
Huntsmanshorn wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:24 am For me, brevifolia seeds germinate a lot faster if they are kept warm. Try upping the temps into the 80s and see what happens.
That's an interesting take, but I do happen to have a heating pad for my snake that I'm not using right now and could try tossing underneath a pot. Actually, I was thinking they should've been near 80 degrees already but I forgot that I only just installed led panels on the shelf underneath about a week ago, so they would've only been low 70s till now. I have 2 pots and the test tube left inside to experiment with, so I'll try keeping some hotter and see.
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By MikeB
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#394033
NightRaider wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:11 am Yeah I'm definitely not complaining if I happened to get some cold hardy ones that I might could leave out year-round here, I just didn't know that this could be a possibility with any of the non hibernacula-forming warm temperates.
I don't think I'd classify the northern D. brevifolia plants as "warm temperate". They grow in eastern North Carolina and Virginia, hardiness zone 7b. It can get kinda cold here in the winter, and two or three light snows each year are typical (though it almost always melts off by the next day).
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By NightRaider
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#394034
Yeah I understand and don't disagree at all, I just meant that, similar to capillaris, they seem to be regarded as warm temperates as a species generally. To be more clear, more what I meant was that I wasn't aware that those species that don't form hibernacula could potentially still need strat. I am definitely aware there have to be some forms with significant cold tolerance, since brevifolia and capillaris are both native to my home county in 6b/7a (assuming they haven't been extirpated, I haven't looked that far into it). So while I'd love to, it's just hard to find either species with location data this far north.
EDIT: Actually it appears brevifolia is still doing well at least, since a new population was just found in 2019 apparently.
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By NightRaider
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#395628
Just a quick update in case anyone in the future needs to know, I ended up placing the test tube of seeds next to my snake's heat lamp which should've kept them a constant 80-85 degrees, and I'm finally seeing the first signs of germination after right around 3 weeks. So as it turns out, I was mistaken about the potential need for stratification, and they do appear to need heat instead. So at least as far as germination goes, it unexpectedly seems to be more similar to the Florida red form of filiformis than it is to capillaris Emerald's Envy (which iirc also originates from Florida, but needs neither heat or strat).
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