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By DeadlyCarnivore
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#393259
Does anyone know if there is a difference between a Typical Ceph and the ABG Clone from The Atlanta Botanical Gardens? Do the mature pitchers look different? Is it easier to grow? I'm curious because I ordered the clone from CC and they dont say what makes it different from a Typical Veph, other than it being an ABG Clone.

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By MaxVft
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#393263
Since there is only one species, this clone is probably just another Cultivar, just like VFTs.
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By DeadlyCarnivore
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#393279
MaxVft wrote:Since there is only one species, this clone is probably just another Cultivar, just like VFTs.
Yeah I knew that, but I was wondering if this clone in particular had any special characteristics. Like what about it made them want to clone it? Does it get giant pitchers like Hummers Giant?

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By Apollyon
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#393281
If there is anything different, it is probably negligible. Something like basic genetic variations from different parents. Maybe it'll get redder/purple or the lid has more/less color variation, lid goes up a little more. Unfortunately, with cephs, a lot of times you need to grow them a certain way in order to bring out the characteristics that make them different. Like Eden Black. Hummer's Giant will get larger in lower light, etc. Sometimes it'll be some branding to get more money like "Charles Brewer's clone" when the guy probably had 1000 different plants.

If you're looking for a cephalotus, I'd go with listed cultivars if you want a little different.
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By DeadlyCarnivore
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#393297
Apollyon wrote:If there is anything different, it is probably negligible. Something like basic genetic variations from different parents. Maybe it'll get redder/purple or the lid has more/less color variation, lid goes up a little more. Unfortunately, with cephs, a lot of times you need to grow them a certain way in order to bring out the characteristics that make them different. Like Eden Black. Hummer's Giant will get larger in lower light, etc. Sometimes it'll be some branding to get more money like "Charles Brewer's clone" when the guy probably had 1000 different plants.

If you're looking for a cephalotus, I'd go with listed cultivars if you want a little different.
I ended up asking CC themselves and all they said was it doesnt have a particular distinguishing feature from other cephs but it is genetically different because its from The Atlanta Botanical Gardens. Which kinda doesnt make sense? Arent seed grown cephs, genetically different from eachother (as that is how plants get genetic diversity)? So unless they mean the "ABG Clone" is genetically different from the cephs CC sells from their own collection, isnt the "ABG Clone" just a clone of a seed grown ceph that ABG had? Why Clone it? It seems like its just a branding case, which isnt a bad thing in this case because it was the same price as their regular cephs.

I did some digging and I found a reddit post of someone who also had an ABG Clone, and it does seem like there might actually be a visual difference in how the pitchers look. The picture the person posted of it showed significantly larger pitchers than the typical they had growing next to it, and it seemed to be a lighter color. I can post the picture if you guys want to see.

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By Apollyon
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#393307
That's exactly it. What probably happened is ABG grew some cephalotus for whatever reason from seed and decided to propagate one (or a SG plant itself) and sent it over to CC. CC decides to use it as a gimmick. I'll be honest, imo CC is usually that nursery people go to for its "fame." Being the author(s) of the savage garden, CC gets brand recognition. They're a business. I've purchased from them before, but usually it's a first timer kinda site unless they have a clone someone really wants. Prices are higher (imo) for lesser size or quality. When it gets down to it, CC doesn't grow their plants any better than any other nursery.

I'm sure there's a difference to some degree on the ABG clone but it would be akin to differences between other SG cephalotus. I'd like to see it because I'm honestly curious now. I'm hoping my plants flower next year; I'd love to get some Hummer's Giant x Eden Black seeds :D
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By DeadlyCarnivore
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#393311
Apollyon wrote:That's exactly it. What probably happened is ABG grew some cephalotus for whatever reason from seed and decided to propagate one (or a SG plant itself) and sent it over to CC. CC decides to use it as a gimmick. I'll be honest, imo CC is usually that nursery people go to for its "fame." Being the author(s) of the savage garden, CC gets brand recognition. They're a business. I've purchased from them before, but usually it's a first timer kinda site unless they have a clone someone really wants. Prices are higher (imo) for lesser size or quality. When it gets down to it, CC doesn't grow their plants any better than any other nursery.

I'm sure there's a difference to some degree on the ABG clone but it would be akin to differences between other SG cephalotus. I'd like to see it because I'm honestly curious now. I'm hoping my plants flower next year; I'd love to get some Hummer's Giant x Eden Black seeds :D
Yeah, I agree. They are a first timer website, but they do actually have good tuberous dews for sale every once in a while. I also very much agree on the lesser size for the price. They're one of the only sites I know of though, so I will kind of have to use them until I can find somewhere else, haha.

I'll post the picture, I found it on reddit. The red one on the left is a typical (I think) and its a few years older than the ABG Clone. The one they're holding is the ABG Clone.Image

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By Apollyon
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#393324
Honestly that looks like a Hummer's Giant. It has the wide midrib, larger pitchers and that odd habit of opening in a ^ shape. Others do it but of my cephs, that one is more pronounced with it. Perhaps it is just similar though. Cool photo.

As for CPs man, you should try posting in the forums too if you're looking for something. Almost always cheaper but they also care about the plants they raise. But I understand, options are sometimes limited. Their tuberous sundews are pretty interesting. I have a squamosa myself and thought about buying a hybrid to try to get seed.
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By DeadlyCarnivore
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#393326
Apollyon wrote:Honestly that looks like a Hummer's Giant. It has the wide midrib, larger pitchers and that odd habit of opening in a ^ shape. Others do it but of my cephs, that one is more pronounced with it. Perhaps it is just similar though. Cool photo.

As for CPs man, you should try posting in the forums too if you're looking for something. Almost always cheaper but they also care about the plants they raise. But I understand, options are sometimes limited. Their tuberous sundews are pretty interesting. I have a squamosa myself and thought about buying a hybrid to try to get seed.
Hmmm, thats interesting... I wonder if it is actually a seed grown ceph that ABG Cloned, or if they cloned a plant they got that they didnt know was a cultivar.

And Yeah, I have kind of been asking around recently on here in DMs about buying tubers/seeds in the future. So that has opened up my options a little.

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By DragonsEye
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Joined:  Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:22 pm
#393334
DeadlyCarnivore wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:40 pm Why Clone it?
In many cases, you can get a full sized plant faster from a clone than growing from seed.
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By DeadlyCarnivore
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#393336
DragonsEye wrote:
DeadlyCarnivore wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:40 pm Why Clone it?
In many cases, you can get a full sized plant faster from a clone than growing from seed.
I forgot about that. Do you know how much faster?

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By Sarracenia2004
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Joined:  Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:31 am
#393345
All you need to do is take an already made clone. Put it under different conditions, and take a few pics. Then you have a "new" clone. It looks different, but its actually the exact same genetics. Some growers actually grow these plants from seed, and just sell of the seed grown plants as their own individual clones. Technically they are genetically different. Even if they don't have any distinguishing characteristics.
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By Apollyon
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#393350
I've never grown cephalotus from seed (that I can confirm anyway) but I had a leaf cutting turn out a small mature pitcher within 2-3 months. That's not common and It'll probably sit for a while but it established a decent crown from pulling energy from a single leaf. A seed grown would take a long time to mature like that. Cuttings are genetically the same age as the parent plant and it has a source of energy to establish itself so that also helps

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