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By Sp0nser
Posts:  183
Joined:  Fri May 10, 2019 7:40 pm
#377484
I recently saw carnivero sell a flytrap with black and red coloration(i think it was vft winemouth) and instantly wanted it more than anything, but it was very pricey, so im searching for an alternative . Anyone have any venus fly trap varieties with this coloration?

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By Matt
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Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
#377501
Oh wow, yeah, Carnivero is selling that plant for $300. Wow! You know, over the years I've started several thousand flytraps from seed and have seen coloration quite similar to that. I'm kicking myself for not selecting one or more of them to propagate now. My hesitation to do so stemmed from the fact that interior trap coloration is so mercurial, somewhat unpredictable, and can vary a lot from location to location and growing conditions that I've tried to shy away from naming too many plants just based on coloration. Of course, coloration is somewhat predictable given particular conditions and more predictable under artificial lighting. But the most common plants we receive less-than-positive feedback about are the ones named for coloration like FTS Purple Ambush, SD Draco, etc.
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By Apollyon
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Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#377510
That makes sense. Purple Ambush does pretty good for me but I have a few named cp clones that just don't look like their stock photo. Personally I'm not too phased by it but it does suck trying to explain to someone who doesn't know any better that "Yes, that really is the plant." Eden Black comes to mind because mine for instance has touches of black and I have it basically hugging the LED. I've heard cool temps help bring it out. I'll have divisions come winter and I'll see if that's the case. Wish I could grow it outside year round :P It's weird but I feel like in my experience, fluorescent lighting brings out colors better for me. Perhaps its the light intensity or the spectrum (I use different bulbs), idk.

Winemouth is a really nice looking plant but I'm betting its indoor lighting that brings it out, like some of those wicked looking DCXL
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By Matt
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#377513
Apollyon wrote:It's weird but I feel like in my experience, fluorescent lighting brings out colors better for me. Perhaps its the light intensity or the spectrum (I use different bulbs), idk.
Yep, I've noticed the same. Fluorescents always put some serious color on flytraps. They will color up in our southern Oregon sun too but only in late summer/early fall. They'll get great color under lights all the time!
Apollyon wrote:Winemouth is a really nice looking plant but I'm betting its indoor lighting that brings it out, like some of those wicked looking DCXL
That would be my guess as well but it is possible that it looks like the stock photos in the fall too in some areas. I would almost guarantee the traps wouldn't look like that this time of year though. Even the most colorful green flytraps rarely get much anthocyanin in the spring and early summer.
By DragonsEye
Posts:  267
Joined:  Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:22 pm
#377767
I can't speak to plants coloring up better under fluorescents, but I can testify to the perceived color difference that occurs with plants under them. In particular, many types of flowers will appear more blue or a richer purple when viewed under such lights than when seen in sunlight.
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By Matt
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#377812
DragonsEye wrote:I can't speak to plants coloring up better under fluorescents
Check out this post to see what FTS Maroon Monster can do when placed under fluorescent lights and then moved outside:
red-dragon-or-maroon-monster-t30874.html#p260679

Specifically look how totally BLACK the leaves and traps can get in this photo:
Image

That's not at all "normal" coloration for FTS Maroon Monster so that's why I say people should use caution when buying plants solely based on coloration in a single photo which is just a snapshot in time without any context of how the plant was grown. It is pretty easy to manipulate coloration on flyraps by changing their light sources.

I'm certainly not trying to say anything specific about the "Wine Mouth" cultivar because I have no background information at all about how the plant in the photos was grown. But it is just something people should keep in mind when shopping for flytraps solely based on their coloration.
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By Apollyon
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#377818
For sure, if I could produce the same coloration as winemouth, It'd be a my favorite flytrap I'm sure.

Hey Matt, when you cross flytraps in order to try to make a cultivar, about how often do you encounter an actual mix of the characteristics shown in the parent plants? I was thinking of going weird scientist next year when my divisions have some actual size to them and I can risk playing with it.
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By Matt
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#377819
Apollyon wrote:Think I'll be going weird scientist next year with my purple ambush and see what rabbit hole it takes me down
Awesome! I've not used 'FTS Purple Ambush' as much in making crosses yet as I should have!! I'll bet with the right cross, you could get something similar to "Wine Mouth".

A couple of suggestions I would have is to use 'FTS Maroon Monster' as the pollen plant, so ('FTS Purple Ambush' x 'FTS Maroon Monster'). Another good one would be ('FTS Flaming Lips' x 'FTS Purple Ambush') and vice versa ('FTS Purple Ambush' x 'FTS Flaming Lips'). And to use 'FTS Purple Ambush' as the pollen plant with 'Jaws' or 'Low Giant' which get good coloration too or any other red-leafed flytrap, particularly 'Purple Haze'. Just some suggestions if you want to try to get something like Wine Mouth!
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By Apollyon
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#377821
Thanks man! Those are great ideas though I have about 2 of those :lol: Apparently my original message posted and I had edited it to summarize. Thanks for answering the question though!

Thinking about it, I think my ideal VFT would be something like winemouth coloration, schuppenstiel petioles, with the height and size of DCXL. So I'll get back to you in about 10 years :lol:
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By Matt
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#377839
Apollyon wrote:Thinking about it, I think my ideal VFT would be something like winemouth coloration, schuppenstiel petioles, with the height and size of DCXL. So I'll get back to you in about 10 years :lol:
Haha, seriously!!! Not sure if all those odd traits could co-exist on a single flytrap. It seems like some genetic traits are mutually exclusive in some ways and others always coexist. I certainly don't know much about genetics, but I've done enough crosses with flytraps over the years to have a good guess as to what to expect in terms of offspring with most of the plants in cultivation.
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By Matt
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#377933
elaineo wrote:Do pH levels affect red/black coloration, or is it mainly lighting? Anthocyanin displays differently for some plants, depending on soil pH (eg, red cabbage, blueberries, hydrangeas).
Yes, I'm pretty sure pH levels do have some effect on coloration as well. I can't answer to what degree though as I haven't ever tested pH levels in our flytraps. Someone else better educated in the plant chemistry world could probably shed more light on the subject.
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By VFTNoob
Posts:  82
Joined:  Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:53 pm
#379196
Matt wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:11 am Oh wow, yeah, Carnivero is selling that plant for $300. Wow! You know, over the years I've started several thousand flytraps from seed and have seen coloration quite similar to that. I'm kicking myself for not selecting one or more of them to propagate now. My hesitation to do so stemmed from the fact that interior trap coloration is so mercurial, somewhat unpredictable, and can vary a lot from location to location and growing conditions that I've tried to shy away from naming too many plants just based on coloration. Of course, coloration is somewhat predictable given particular conditions and more predictable under artificial lighting. But the most common plants we receive less-than-positive feedback about are the ones named for coloration like FTS Purple Ambush, SD Draco, etc.
I am one of the people that initially complained about Purple Ambush. It blew me away under lights and definitely colors up better than a lot of my other indoor plants. Its also looking really good this spring. I find some flytraps look better during different times of the year. SD Draco looked stunning in the fall as it chameleoned into its full red form. Still waiting on my G16 to look like that sick stock photo! Its grown so fast that I dont even mind though
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By Matt
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#379227
VFTNoob wrote:I am one of the people that initially complained about Purple Ambush. It blew me away under lights and definitely colors up better than a lot of my other indoor plants.
Yeah, FTS Purple Ambush certainly has the ability to get amazing deep red coloration! However, it isn't guaranteed to get that color because it is highly dependent on the growing conditions for it to show its great color.

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