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By Apollyon
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Posts:  967
Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#369450
Interesting stuff. I feel personally that the pitchers grew that characteristic over time for me. Or at the very least, it wasn't nearly as pronounced. The original pitcher had it but the next ones came in smaller. In fact, I never really thought of the midrib so much over the last several months but it's funny because a few weeks ago I noticed it cranked out seriously wide one and I was like "Man, if that is proportional, this pitcher is going to be the biggest one yet. I'll be honest though, of all the different type of Cephs I have, HG has grown the slowest for me. It does however get bursts of growth from time to time where it'll grow 4-5 pitchers. My Eden Black so far has been the most vigorous one. That division had 4 pitchers and it started growing numerous ones after. At last count it was something like 13 new pitchers. The HG appears to be growing again though I just took off the humidity dome so it'll be a few weeks before I see anything, I'm sure. I just really wanted to get the eb under more intense light :lol: forced acclimation. The plant is still putting out smaller adult pitchers though. It definitely isn't seeing 2in+
By Z_Y
Posts:  73
Joined:  Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:19 pm
#369464
I got a response from Brimski. He confirmed that it is indeed a real Hummer's Giant. He mentions that he grows the cuttings under lower light conditions, which may allow better expression of the flared midrib. He also doses the plants with sulfer, oils, and other chemicals which causes the splotchy leaf burn and soil PH issues that might affect pitcher morphology. The plant I received was indeed very splotchy, so probably had quite a bit of chemical treatment.

Looking at more ceph pictures, it seems that for Hummer's Giant the size of the midrib is kind of variable, for example in these pictures of different plants from a different seller I see thinner midribs alongside wider ones. It also seems that the wider midrib are on the more mature pitchers with a pronounced "bean" curve.
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I'll take Brimski's word for it since he seems very reputable. I think I'll chalk it up as to my plant not having any massive pitchers yet. There's a lot of growth points in a big clump, just no super big ones with an extreme curve to the bag portion yet. Me cutting up the plant into a bunch of cuttings probably didn't help :lol:


On a different note, I'm interested in what is your lighting conditions for your True/Fake Hummer's Giants? They seem very well colored, and that one dark fake one looks real nice. Also I'm interested in temperatures and the potting soil, as those may affect the coloration too.
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By Apollyon
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Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#369465
I always liked the color of hummer's giant. The contrast between the green and the purple on the peristome before it colors through. Mine just sit under some yescoms, about 8-10 inches away on that shelf so they color up pretty hard. They look closer to your first pictures. I may move them to lower light though to try to get the pitcher sizes larger later on. I just ripped off their humidity domes. My eden black seemed to be doing much better without it and it is kind of a hassle so I'm going to let them do their thing. They're much more stable than they were when I got them so hopefully won't be too long. Happy Thanksgiving!
By Z_Y
Posts:  73
Joined:  Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:19 pm
#369466
Do you have pics of your eden black? Mine does seem to have areas that are darker than any other ceph I have, such as around the peristome, but the overall coloration is not uniform. For example, the midrib and pitcher underside is still a bit green.

The lid and throat definitely has some more coloration though, the lid has fewer fenestrations and the throat has this dark splotch. Currently the small red opened one in this pic is the newest pitcher that has been under my lights as it was inflating, so I'll have to see how this one colors up.
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My Queen Mary for example while not as dark has a really uniform coloration.
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By Apollyon
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Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#369467
My eden black isn't colored in yet lol. It was quite green when I received it. Thats the other half of why I took one of the domes off. It just has a lot more vigor, possibly because it was originally grown in similar conditions. Ive had it for a couple of months. It had the 4 pitchers with the lids open. I have it with a typical that I received that was *extremely* small. It finally grew those first 2 adult pitchers (I was pretty excited about that actually). The color of them and the plants behind it motivated me to move it closer to the light. Ill have a better idea in a couple weeks.

Your plants always have amazing color to them. I always enjoy checking your updates
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Last edited by Apollyon on Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By Z_Y
Posts:  73
Joined:  Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:19 pm
#369470
Your plant is looking nice too, it seems to have much larger and more mature pitchers than mine with a thicker peristome. My newer pitchers are maybe 20% smaller than before, not sure if it's due to the higher light or if these pitchers are still kind of in relocation shock. Just goes to show even the same exact clone can look different with these cephs, haha.
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By Apollyon
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Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#369471
Thanks! I'll definitely want to take some pictures in another month when the rest of pitchers from the other side are visible too :lol: It blew me away honestly though. I got this plant in september (which from looking at yours and its medium makes me wonder if it was the same guy) and it acclimated for a little while then just went nuts. My other cephs hadn't come close. I kept humidity on them to keep their lids open but the growth just wasn't there. So between that and the desire to get the EB under the light, I just took off the domes yesterday now that the plants are adjusted to their pots and all that. The seller gave me a choice and I went with the most developed one I could see (though it was a close one though). I'm unsure how the newest ones will turn out but yeah, that greener pitcher (was solid green) REALLY stood out when I opened the box. I'm in the same boat. I think the acclimation and the new light intensity are going to make them smaller. I think a couple of those are about the size they're going to be.

I think you're right though. I think conditions play a huge role in their development and how they respond to the world around them. If I left them off to the side of my grow racks, they'd surely get larger (though slower) but I believe different light intensity would change the morphology of the pitchers to some degree. My HG pitchers came out differently than the ones on the plants. I'll get another picture when the EB starts coloring in and I have a better idea. I had it over 16 inches away before, now it's about 8.

Hardest thing I've had to deal with is watering the thing lol. I've had a ceph in LFS before but not one so expensive. I'm like overly cautious about it lol. I do wonder if the plants do better in it however. I top water it and let it dry out like that for a bit before I water again. I'm usually lifting the pot to gauge if it needs to be watered or not.
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By Nepenthes0260
Posts:  963
Joined:  Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:59 am
#369472
Apollyon wrote:Interesting stuff. I feel personally that the pitchers grew that characteristic over time for me. Or at the very least, it wasn't nearly as pronounced. The original pitcher had it but the next ones came in smaller. In fact, I never really thought of the midrib so much over the last several months but it's funny because a few weeks ago I noticed it cranked out seriously wide one and I was like "Man, if that is proportional, this pitcher is going to be the biggest one yet. I'll be honest though, of all the different type of Cephs I have, HG has grown the slowest for me. It does however get bursts of growth from time to time where it'll grow 4-5 pitchers. My Eden Black so far has been the most vigorous one. That division had 4 pitchers and it started growing numerous ones after. At last count it was something like 13 new pitchers. The HG appears to be growing again though I just took off the humidity dome so it'll be a few weeks before I see anything, I'm sure. I just really wanted to get the eb under more intense light :lol: forced acclimation. The plant is still putting out smaller adult pitchers though. It definitely isn't seeing 2in+
I agree. I've been growing my HG for six months and in that time its made a few new pitchers and a couple lew leaves :lol:. I wouldn't exactly call it vigorous, especially compared to other ceph clones that grow like crazy, such as 'Elizabeth' and "Bubble Giant".
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By Nepenthes0260
Posts:  963
Joined:  Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:59 am
#369473
Z_Y wrote:I got a response from Brimski. He confirmed that it is indeed a real Hummer's Giant. He mentions that he grows the cuttings under lower light conditions, which may allow better expression of the flared midrib. He also doses the plants with sulfer, oils, and other chemicals which causes the splotchy leaf burn and soil PH issues that might affect pitcher morphology. The plant I received was indeed very splotchy, so probably had quite a bit of chemical treatment.

Looking at more ceph pictures, it seems that for Hummer's Giant the size of the midrib is kind of variable, for example in these pictures of different plants from a different seller I see thinner midribs alongside wider ones. It also seems that the wider midrib are on the more mature pitchers with a pronounced "bean" curve.
s-l1600 (3).jpg
s-l1600 (2).jpg
s-l1600 (1).jpg
I'll take Brimski's word for it since he seems very reputable. I think I'll chalk it up as to my plant not having any massive pitchers yet. There's a lot of growth points in a big clump, just no super big ones with an extreme curve to the bag portion yet. Me cutting up the plant into a bunch of cuttings probably didn't help :lol:


On a different note, I'm interested in what is your lighting conditions for your True/Fake Hummer's Giants? They seem very well colored, and that one dark fake one looks real nice. Also I'm interested in temperatures and the potting soil, as those may affect the coloration too.
Ok, Brian Lipinski is a very reputable ceph grower so I'd definitely trust him. Probably in a few months you'll start seeing the wide midrib.

Light is extremely intense, under CobKits LEDs. The CobKits are about 15" away from the plants themselves, but are definitely powerful enough to get good coloring.

I've been trying with a few mixes, but the one that's currently working best for me is a 2:1:1 perlite : LFSM : orchiata bark mixture. The very dark fake HG is potted in about 1:1 sand : peat. I haven't gotten around to changing the mix on that one yet. The true HG is potted in that perlite/orchiata/LFSM mix but a bit heavy on the LFSM. I know a few people that use pure LFSM and pure perlite for Cephalotus and get great results.

For summer, my ceph temps get to about 80 in the day and around 65-70 at night. In the winter, I move my setup to a colder location to get them a slight dormancy. Temps in the day get up to 65-70 and down to 50-60 at night. For me, if they have a small winters rest the will explode with new growth and flowers in the spring.
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By Apollyon
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Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#369474
@Nepenthes0260, I'm still wanting a couple of those :lol: Seriously though, the plant took months to acclimate, kinda formed its "rosette," I'll call it, and then just hung out for while again. To be fair though, my HGs had a sole pitcher (or two, I can't remember) and a couple leaves on each plant lol. CB said the plants had been propped months earlier so I should've kinda guessed from the appearance lol. Comparing them now to what they were though, they've made impressive progress. They have about 7-8 pitchers on each plant, albeit smaller. They're about the same size or smaller than the ones on my typical pic up there. They were making some juveniles for a bit and then went adult again fairly quickly. So I'm sure in about 40 years, it'll be where it needs to be :lol:
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By Apollyon
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Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#369475
Ah, I can see that. Unfortunately I can't really get them much of a dormancy here. I do have them in shorter photoperiods and the temp will drop a little bit but I don't think it'll be enough to get them dormant though.

The more invested I become with these plants, the more I consider moving more north lol. I can grow lowland Nepenthes outside and some subtropical Drosera but I'd love to have some more variety. The plants found at higher altitudes just look better to me. I'll be trying Byblis next year because it sounds doable. Then I can get some more majestic looking plants in larger pots. I can see where Fishman is coming from with that genus, they're spectacular to look at. Shame most of them are annuals. I'm wondering if crossing with a perennial would change that.
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By Nepenthes0260
Posts:  963
Joined:  Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:59 am
#369478
Apollyon wrote:@Nepenthes0260, I'm still wanting a couple of those :lol: Seriously though, the plant took months to acclimate, kinda formed its "rosette," I'll call it, and then just hung out for while again. To be fair though, my HGs had a sole pitcher (or two, I can't remember) and a couple leaves on each plant lol. CB said the plants had been propped months earlier so I should've kinda guessed from the appearance lol. Comparing them now to what they were though, they've made impressive progress. They have about 7-8 pitchers on each plant, albeit smaller. They're about the same size or smaller than the ones on my typical pic up there. They were making some juveniles for a bit and then went adult again fairly quickly. So I'm sure in about 40 years, it'll be where it needs to be :lol:
Let me know if you ever have a division of that Eden Black available, if so I'm sure we can work out some sort of ceph trade ;).

For me, cephs aren't hard to make the transition from immature to mature pitchers. Especially compared to helis haha. Usually for me cephs are just going along making tiny immature pitchers then randomly pop out a full size mature one!
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By Nepenthes0260
Posts:  963
Joined:  Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:59 am
#369479
Apollyon wrote:Ah, I can see that. Unfortunately I can't really get them much of a dormancy here. I do have them in shorter photoperiods and the temp will drop a little bit but I don't think it'll be enough to get them dormant though.

The more invested I become with these plants, the more I consider moving more north lol. I can grow lowland Nepenthes outside and some subtropical Drosera but I'd love to have some more variety. The plants found at higher altitudes just look better to me. I'll be trying Byblis next year because it sounds doable. Then I can get some more majestic looking plants in larger pots. I can see where Fishman is coming from with that genus, they're spectacular to look at. Shame most of them are annuals. I'm wondering if crossing with a perennial would change that.
You'd be surprised on how little they need to go dormant. Last year I wasn't even trying to make them go dormant but did anyways lol! They need just a slightly different photoperiod and slightly less temps. Temps aren't as important as less light though.

Byblis are pretty cool, but I don't like annual plants. I really want to grow some B. gigantea!
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By Apollyon
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Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#369484
Nepenthes0260 wrote: Let me know if you ever have a division of that Eden Black available, if so I'm sure we can work out some sort of ceph trade ;).
Lol will do man. There were some a couple months back you asked about and I think they'll be good to go by springtime too. Some flytraps and I think some pinguicula? I'm not sure but they've all been going pretty hard.

That'd be cool, i dedicated the top racks I'm using for propagations for 16 hour photoperiods and dropped everything else down to about 11. If they go dormant that'd be great.

Yeah the annual aspect is a bummer. Perennial is nice but I like the looks of the annuals. Which is why I'm wondering about hybrids. Something like a Gigantea x Rorida or x Guehoi so the dew production and "rammification" would be nicer (to me anyway). I e-mailed him to ask if he had any gigantea or lamellata seeds available. I'm just worried about the size lolol. I'll have the prune the thing. Get myself a byblis bonsai tree :lol:
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By Nepenthes0260
Posts:  963
Joined:  Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:59 am
#369489
Apollyon wrote:
Nepenthes0260 wrote: Let me know if you ever have a division of that Eden Black available, if so I'm sure we can work out some sort of ceph trade ;).
Lol will do man. There were some a couple months back you asked about and I think they'll be good to go by springtime too. Some flytraps and I think some pinguicula? I'm not sure but they've all been going pretty hard.

That'd be cool, i dedicated the top racks I'm using for propagations for 16 hour photoperiods and dropped everything else down to about 11. If they go dormant that'd be great.

Yeah the annual aspect is a bummer. Perennial is nice but I like the looks of the annuals. Which is why I'm wondering about hybrids. Something like a Gigantea x Rorida or x Guehoi so the dew production and "rammification" would be nicer (to me anyway). I e-mailed him to ask if he had any gigantea or lamellata seeds available. I'm just worried about the size lolol. I'll have the prune the thing. Get myself a byblis bonsai tree :lol:
Sounds good! Just lmk when/if you have Eden Black available :D.

From 16 hrs to 11? I'm sure that will get them dormant. Ceph "dormancy" isn't actually a true dormancy- they just lose a few pitchers and grow more carnivorous leaves. Nothing like sarr or VFT dormancy.

The annual Byblis plants stem a ton, and if they were perennials you'd end up with ten foot tall plants! The only Byblis I currently grow is liniflora, and every year it dies like a true annual.
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