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Discussions on how to propagate your plants sexually and asexually, by seed, natural division or leaf pulling

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By murrkywaters
Posts:  326
Joined:  Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:39 pm
#367759
Yeah I'm getting some from ebay. The same source Matt used. I'm going to try recrystalizing it and comparing the research sample under the ol' microscope. I'm sure it'll work, I'm just unsure about their purity claim. As for contacting rarexoticseeds, I reached out and as of yet nothing.

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By murrkywaters
Posts:  326
Joined:  Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:39 pm
#368007
murrkywaters wrote:If you're referring to his article in ICPS he recommends a .1% aqueous solution, which on paper sounds the same, but in practice isn't. I lowkey hate TDS meters because they measure water conductivity. For molecules that are weakly soluble in water like gibberellic acid this will read on a TDS meter far lower than expected, or not at all. You can verify this by creating .5 molar solutions of various compounds in distilled water and check the TDS meter. Conductivity is also greatly effected by temperature so you would need to correct for that too. Note that the solubility of GA3 in water is only 5g/L or ~ .7% for a completely saturated solution at 20°c. If my measurements are accurate then the TDS reading for that would only be about 35 ppm. To add to the confusion the savage garden recommends a 1 cm coating on a toothpick per cup of water. I guess the real proof will be if/when the seeds germinate.

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The ebay GA3 reached saturation at 350 ppm at 21° C. I still need to try this with the research grade stuff. I'll have to find my good scale that can read milligrams accurately again. I'll let it finish recrystalizing over night and update yall in the morning.

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By murrkywaters
Posts:  326
Joined:  Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:39 pm
#368025
Here are some of the crystals this morning.ImageImageImage

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By Apollyon
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Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#368026
How did they compare?
By uxleumas
Posts:  387
Joined:  Thu May 07, 2020 5:30 pm
#368028
murrkywaters wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:34 pm Yeah I'm getting some from ebay. The same source Matt used. I'm going to try recrystalizing it and comparing the research sample under the ol' microscope. I'm sure it'll work, I'm just unsure about their purity claim. As for contacting rarexoticseeds, I reached out and as of yet nothing.

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i had to nudge them for a bit, about 3 emails before they responded
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By murrkywaters
Posts:  326
Joined:  Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:39 pm
#368029
That is yet to be seen. I still have to check melting points for both, and I need to find that darn scale.

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By murrkywaters
Posts:  326
Joined:  Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:39 pm
#368054
Saturation was reached at 240 ppm at 16° C it was a bit colder in the house today. Crystals formed closer to room temperature. Quick reminder, crystals aren't 100%. Next ill try finding the melting point. This one isn't 100% either, more because of my equipment.ImageImageImageImageImage

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By murrkywaters
Posts:  326
Joined:  Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:39 pm
#368056
Did some digging and I think the stuff on ebay is the potassium salt. It is more soluble than the pure acid, and it seems to be more stable in the long run. I don't think it makes too big of a difference for what we're doing here, other than the ppm readings will be off. Trial and error is probably the best way forward.

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By Apollyon
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#368073
Still an interesting thing to learn. I think I'll get some of the powder from ebay next time around. So what inspired you to try to crystalize this stuff? Are you trying to find the most pure chemical to work with? It was a pretty cool thread to follow.
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By murrkywaters
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Joined:  Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:39 pm
#368074
I was/still am trying to confirm that the chemicals are the same. Mostly out of curiosity, especially with the extreme price difference.

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By Apollyon
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#368078
murrkywaters wrote:I was/still am trying to confirm that the chemicals are the same. Mostly out of curiosity, especially with the extreme price difference.

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Ahhh, I wish I had the knowledge to be able to test this stuff. I had to sit on it to see if it worked. Chemistry is not my forte whatsoever. If you're interested, I can send you a sample of my powder to run under the microscope and compare to these as well. I'm curious about its quality compared to what you have. Either way, I'd like to see the results of this as well. You're right though, this stuff goes anywhere from 3 dollars a gram to 50. Not even going to say what that sounds like lol. I was suspicious of my purchase but it worked out. I just wonder if a more pure compound would give me a higher yield. It reacts strangely between the species. I planted the most liniflora and got the least, whereas all of my aquatica germinated (minus the one I accidentally blasted out of the pot) and the rorida was reasonably successful as well. I believe you said you planted aquatica robust form, how long did it take for yours to germinate? Mine took a few weeks with GA3, the control didn't germinate at all as of yet. Those by far are the slowest responders to my conditions.
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By murrkywaters
Posts:  326
Joined:  Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:39 pm
#368080
My liniflora responded better to smoke water. Having a better baseline is hopefully going to clear up some of the confusion regarding the effects on plants. It seems to help my N. tobaica pitcher faster. It's a seedling so I'm not sure if that factors in. Either way having a clearer picture of whats going on will help everyone. I hope to demystify a lot of the conjecture surrounding the stuff.

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By Apollyon
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Posts:  625
Joined:  Tue May 05, 2020 2:49 am
#368083
Sounds like you're the kind of person I wish wrote articles when I was researching this stuff myself. What kind of ppm did you use when you dosed your plants?

I'm going on vacation at the end of next week and I'll have the time to experiment and see if I can contribute to this as well. I've been wanting to use ga3 as a foliar "fertilizer" since I learned of it.

I have different batches of seedlings I wanted to try it on though I also have numerous identical clones. I believe that would be one of the best ways to see how it can be applied to carnivorous plant growth. For me it'd mainly be pinguicula on that front, though I do have several multifida extrema clones that are currently rooting and will hopefully establish themselves. I have some filiformis hybrid cuttings (dreamsicle) that I can use in the future.

From an article researching GA3 on a different type of plant, they seemed to find that higher concentrations inhibited plant growth long term compared to the control, while lesser concentrations had various effects. The main difference was in complex root development. The GA3 enhanced top growth, though they found the root systems to be lacking when compared to the control, so the control plants eventually caught up. It'd be useful for seedlings in a nursery setting I'm sure if they could lock in concentrations with cheaper product. Since root systems aren't the main source of nutrient uptake and carnivorous plants don't have exceptionally strong/complex root systems anyway (for the most part), I don't think it would really hold the plants back long term. I wanted to use a 50-100ppm solution on my bains kloof seedlings (the smallest of the batch) to see if it caused a spike in growth or a dieback.
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By murrkywaters
Posts:  326
Joined:  Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:39 pm
#368107
I fed the plants 5-10 ppm of the acid, not the salt. My knowledge in chemistry is not very complete because I left my formal training in the sciences fairly early into my undergraduate studies in favor of my music degrees. I always kept up with my studies in private but I could never get my schedule for lab classes to not conflict with ensemble rehearsals. Maybe one day I'll go back and finish my chemistry degree. Don't take my word as gospel though, I feel I should put that out there. I'm basically doing these experiments in my kitchen without access to good equipment, and with my lack of formal training I could be making some mistakes.

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