FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

yeah i just need a piece that fits just right and is cheap. i dont want to deal with trying to cut out the corner.

just wanted to show what the terrarium looks like now.. now have three 26w 6400K 1700 lumen CFL bulbs and one BriGenius 25w 6500K 2500 lumen LED bulb that i bought on amazon. I had to get a 4 bulb adapter to fit them all in one fixture and added the reflective bubble wrap around the fixture cuz the bulbs stuck way out and id be wasting so much light. so far the plants seem to be getting more than enough light, the h. minor are starting to develop red pitchers so i guess thats a good sign even though i dont prefer completely red pitchers. Better than not enough light i guess. Although, the CFL bulbs get pretty hot and heat up the tank by around 4 to 5 degrees F even with the fan. So i do want to switch to something that runs a lot cooler, im thinking a small LED fixture so that the inside of tank is more easily accessible. If anyone can give me some suggestions on a decent LED fixture that isnt purple and is going to suffice for my setup please let me know. still trying to get the watering and fogger right. seems like it was too humid for too long in there and i started to get some mold or fungus problems on the surface of the lfs in the h. minor pots bit they seem to be growing fine. still gotta treat them asap with neem oil.

Hello, how are you?

The grow space is looking good, and the plants look happy so far.

I do not grow N. jamban so I can't comment on it's flexibility regarding the night time temp drop. However I would like to take a moment to comment on night time temp drops in general.

It is my understanding that the temperature drop actually triggers the plant to pause metabolism so to speak. It is not clear to me whether it is the specific point that the temperature drops to (i.e. must drop to 65 or 60 etc.), or the amount by which the temperature actually drops (i.e. 15 degree drop whether that be from 80 down to 65 or 95 down to 80 for instance) that triggers the pause but it is critical for every one of these plants that the pause occur. Different species have different tolerances for pushing the limits of the night time temp drop. Short term a plant not getting this critical trigger to pause metabolism at night can appear to be doing really well and growing very vigorously. This is because it never stops processing energy. Ultimately this unsustainable long term. It's a bit like expecting someone to jog cross country non stop as long as someone drives along side them and hands food and water and whatever else through the window of the car. It doesn't matter what else you give the jogger, if the jogger gets no rest they will inevitably collapse at some point. The plant, like the jogger, will do better for longer with proper conditioning and preparation. Also like the jogger it would just be the right thing to do to be prepared to give it everything it needs in the event of collapse.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you you're going to kill it or it isn't going to work or the temps aren't low enough etc. I grow plenty of plants in conditions that are less than ideal or well outside the recommended methods. I do believe it is imperative to success to understand the direct impact of the particular "boundary" you intend push. I also think it is very helpful to start off growing the plant as close to ideal conditions as is practicable in the beginning for two major reasons. One - once you are familiar with how it grows when given ideal conditions you will be better able to identify the impact of less than ideal conditions as you introduce them. Two - in the event of a rapid decline you have some place for the plant to recover that's already set up and proven to work for the plant since that's where it started.

I'm not saying that's the only way to go, it's just what has been successful for me when acclimating plants to windowsill conditions. I also have a window ac unit in the same room that I use for the nights when just opening the window doesn't cut it. I try not to let it get above 82 during the day. I like to get it down to 60 at night but that's not always practical. I do always make sure to get it close to 65. Maybe 67 at the most. Everything is doing pretty well, but I'm not growing anything considered very demanding there either. I have had nights as high as 70 with no apparent ill effects but not consistently and certainly not as a target night temp. If I'm not mistaken that is closer to a target day temp for that plant. I do have all of my Heliamphora growing fairly well in the same area however these temps aren't too far outside of those recommended and I'm using pretty bright light. So the only thing I'm really pushing is the humidity which is just normal room RH - 30 to 50% for the most part. And again, if any of them begin to decline I can cram them into my enclosure and provide the humidity, temps and light that come as close to the natural conditions as I have been able to achieve with a great deal of effort, equipment, experimentation and constant improvement. It's quite the "rabbit hole" to be sure and placing ice packs in a small tank is the "gateway drug" if you will. I started out pumping ice water through bladders in a 48" x14" x17" enclosure chasing 15 degree temp drops. I'm currently chasing 30 to 35 degree drops pumping sub-zero anti-freeze though a heat exchanger placed at the return end of insulated duct work that recirculates air in a 78"x24"x24" enclosure using a 6 inch duct fan, all controlled by enough electrical dodads and whatchamajiggers to get Michael J. Fox back to 1984. BUT - I am successfully achieving temps as much as 20 below ambient and holding them for 6 plus hours. Something I failed to mention earlier - the duration of the desired temperature is important. As I understand it the temp needs to be maintained for a minimum of 4 hours and ideally 6 to 8 hours to be effective.

Again, I'm not trying to be discouraging at all. I truly hope you are successful and wish you the best of luck. Your plants look great so far. If you do decide to start chasing temperature drops I can probably get you pointed in the right direction and save you a good deal of headache and money since I have already banged my head on pretty much every wall you can build. Also, I don't know if you checked out the link SerMuncherIV provided early in the post but that is a fantastic starting point. There is also a link there to the good old chest freezer solution which is a proven method and relatively inexpensive considering how effective it is. The down side is the size and access limitations of the chest freezer which for me was a deal breaker but work very well for many growers.

You can also look for N. jamban on the Nepenthes around the house website and see if he has had success growing one in a windowsill. Even if there is no information about your plant there I would recommend reading up there as well as the other link mentioned.

Good luck,
-@.

hey i totally get what yr saying thanks for all the info. is it really not possible at all to keep helis without a significant night time temp drop? right now nights havent been going down past the 70s but i think it used to when it was cooler a few months ago. getting into cooling stuff seems expensive..

heres a new pitcher forming on my chimantensis, the first one in my care besides the other green one that arrived almost about to open. i can see a difference in nectar spoons.

your set up is looking great

Well I can't say that it's not possible, because I have never tried. I do know that I have heard of a number of growers who keep them at a constant 76F degrees with a great deal of success. I recently had a very interesting discussion with one of my favorite growers to get Heliamphora from. He explained that there is a fungus that the root system is susceptible to that favors temperatures above 76F. This was alarming information for me as both of my growing areas reach 80-82 with increasing frequency as summer is coming on strong in Southern California. Apparently a significant night time temperature drop OR not allowing temps to reach favorable levels for the fungus can help keep the fungus at bay. We also discussed chimatensis specifically as we both find it to be one of the fussier Heliamphora we keep. He noticed a great deal of improvement in growth when he reduced light levels significantly from that which is normally indicated for Heliamphora. This also struck a cord with me as my plant that is somewhat shaded by a largish Nepenthes is doing a little better than the one in full light. He noted a reddish tint to the edges of the browning pitchers, but not much red coloration in the healthy portions. With light reduction the purple tinting the plant is known for came back. This is consistent with the two plants I have. I'll try to get some pictures soon.

In any event, I don't mean to alarm you or to tell you how to grow your plant. I just wish to share information and help other growers recognize things that may or may not be working as early as possible and hopefully avoid any unnecessary pitfalls. Your plants and your set up look great though, so I wouldn't worry too much unless some of them begin to decline. As I mentioned before, a backup plan for such instances would be ideal.

As far as cooling goes, yes it can become an expensive endeavor in fairly short order. Personally I see the expense as in insurance policy on rare and sometimes very valuable plants that I have put a lot of time and effort into growing. I understand many growers have had a great deal of success using relatively inexpensive peltier coolers, especially with small terrariums. I have not personally built one so I can't give you any guidance with that particular method but I would be happy to share my findings with other methods I have tried if you decide to go that route.

Happy growing,
-@.

hey iamjacksplants, yr right about the temps cuz mine are getting to 85-86F. it gets kinda hot in the upstairs room. i just tried using a long lasting ice pack for the hell of it, and with the fogger blowing over the icepack, cool fog circulates around the tank when it turns on. the thermometer sensor being at least 4 or 5 inches away from the icepack reads as low as 68-69F. My jamban and heliamphora are right next to the icepack about an inch or less away so its probably colder where they are. its better than it used to be staying at around 75F at night. although i need to invest in something to cool the tank better. im thinking a peltier cooler may work.. do you think a temp drop to 60F would be okay? i have a clipeata clone 2 in there and i dunno if it’ll do too well if the temps drop below 60.

best

Yes, I do believe that 60 would be a good target for the night temp as far as the chimantensis is concerned. I don't grow the two Nepenthes you have, however I imagine that would be a good starting point for the jamban as well but this is just conjecture. It is certainly preferable to 70 though. As for the plant that you don't want to push below 60, you might be able to cut some glass or acrylic or whatever clear material you want and use it for a vertical barrier inside the tank. Not only would this create a dual temperature zone, it would also serve to decrease the total area you are trying to cool. I use barriers in my enclosure and it makes a huge difference in temps across the various sections. With the barriers in place I am growing ultra highland plants (N. diatus) on one end and strict lowland plants (N. bicalcarata) on the other. Without the barriers the entire enclosure would be intermediate to highland. Worst case scenario, you could get another tank for your lowland plants and only have to worry about humidity in that setup since it sounds like your natural temperature is very close to lowland ranges.

Cheers,
-@.

i dont think i really knew what i was in for when i started buying highland plants haha. id love to see pictures of the purple tinting chimantensis can have. never even knew that was a thing! i moved the light fixture up about 2 or 3 inches more, in hopes it helps with less heat reaching the tank and less light. i dont think i want to put a divider in cuz it would just make the growing space smaller for the nepenthes, but that seems like a cool idea. id probably have a much easier time growing lowland plants. do you think something like a portable A/C unit would work just blowing the cold air onto the tank? or would the cold air need to be going directly into the terrarium?

Great thread. I am beginning a terrarium build this week so this all helps. Currently debating lighting. Following.

I think a lot of us jump in to highland plants unprepared to satisfy all of their demands. It can be challenging especially in the warmer, drier climates. Then you see folks in the perfect climate to more easily accommodate highland plants and they are infatuated with lowlanders. Go figure.

I believe the air conditioner would be more effective if it was in direct contact with the plants. Whether that be blowing directly in to the enclosure or eliminating the enclosure and just cooling the room they are growing in. I suspect in order to achieve the desired temp drop by simply cooling the room the terrarium is in would require cooling the room well below the target temp for the enclosure.

My best guess at this point given the size of your setup and the temps in the room etc. is that peltier cooling is probably the ticket. There are several members here who have had a great deal of success with them and have build threads, you just have to dig around.

Here are a couple shots of my chimatensis, one of which is clearly much happier than the other. I moved the less happy plant right next to the happier plant right after these pictures were taken. I still need to figure out a better position for them but this is better than it was. By the way, if you cut a small piece of window screen and place it over the glass or plexi or whatever you got there it will shade the plant a bit more without effecting the light delivered to the other plants, as opposed to raising the light fixture and reducing light to all the plants. Also, placing the fan inside and situated so as to direct air flow across the top of the enclosure and out may help dissipate the heat produced by the lights more effectively than from outside in which could conceivably be distributing warm air from the lights INTO the enclosure. Sometimes you just have to play with it and see what happens. I have been surprised many times when something I thought would work amazing had no impact and little tweeks I assumed would zero effect changed everything. It's a big part of the fun for me.

Anyhow, here's the pictures. Note the red tint outlining the declining growth.
The plant in the first two pictures was not is as good condition as the plant in the last picture when they arrived. I thought giving it the brighter spot would help it recover faster however it seems to have had the opposite effect. My limited experience with Heliamphora suggests that like Nepenthes, the hybrids seem to be much less fussy than the pure species. I'm considering throwing both of these in the enclosure, the only problem is that all of the lower light spots in the cold section are already occupied by various orchids and picky highland Utricularia so I'm in a holding pattern for now. I'm going to give the new spot a few weeks and see if there is any improvement. I'll let you know what I find.

Cheers,
-@.

Mkbtank wrote:Great thread. I am beginning a terrarium build this week so this all helps. Currently debating lighting. Following.

I would suggest giving the following links a careful read before slipping too deep into the rabbit hole.

How to use ac unit for walkin fridge or freezer. Same principle applies to "tricking" and off the shelf window ac to cool below 60F.
http://www.plamondon.com/wp/replace-dea ... ditioners/

Multiple build guides including using an ac unit as a chiller as well as other cooling methods and an enclosure build guide.
http://edencps.com/highland-nepenthes-c ... electrical

Another great build guide and pretty much where I got the basis for my current set up as far as cooling.
https://www.terraforums.com/forums/gree ... amber.html

My build thread. I haven't had a chance to update it since I switched to the liquid cooled system, but the basics of that type of build is detailed pretty well in the second and third links above.
highland-system-t32775.html

Good luck.
-@.

jack you rule! yr probably one of the most helpful guys on here, thanks for all the detailed advice! i think i will end up going with a peltier cooler, only thing that worries me is if it will be too bulky and get in the way of the light fixture. ill only beable to put it on the top pointing straight down into the terrarium on the corner. for the fan do you mean i should place it in the top area on the glass and point it towards the opening in the lid? i think this one might be too big and will over do the airflow. Thanks for the pictures that second plant looks nice!

iamjacksplants wrote:

Mkbtank wrote:Great thread. I am beginning a terrarium build this week so this all helps. Currently debating lighting. Following.

I would suggest giving the following links a careful read before slipping too deep into the rabbit hole.

How to use ac unit for walkin fridge or freezer. Same principle applies to "tricking" and off the shelf window ac to cool below 60F.
http://www.plamondon.com/wp/replace-dea ... ditioners/

Multiple build guides including using an ac unit as a chiller as well as other cooling methods and an enclosure build guide.
http://edencps.com/highland-nepenthes-c ... electrical

Another great build guide and pretty much where I got the basis for my current set up as far as cooling.
https://www.terraforums.com/forums/gree ... amber.html

My build thread. I haven't had a chance to update it since I switched to the liquid cooled system, but the basics of that type of build is detailed pretty well in the second and third links above.
highland-system-t32775.html

Good luck.
-@.

Fantastic info!! I will read them all. Thanks so much for the reply. Mitch