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Discussions about anything related to Venus Flytraps, cultivars and named clones

Moderator: Matt

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By SFLguy
Posts:  1726
Joined:  Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:29 am
#228840
killerplants4realz wrote: Everyone Ignore rayneger. Poaching is wrong no matter plant or animal. I also do not like trolls all creepy and living under bridges and evadently we have a troll named rayneger that has no life.
Stop acting like a child, that is the exact opposite of what we should be doing and so far I haven't read anything from rayneger that shows that they are a troll at all, having a different point of view does not count as being a troll and your comment was nothing but petty and in all honesty, embarrassing. If you wish to change someone's views, instead of attacking them, talk to them, understand their point of view and reason with them, you may have to come to terms that you could be wrong. Once someone gets into a defensive stance you will not change their minds and that's that.

That being said, I still believe that taking a whole plant out of nature is wrong, and nothing but detrimental to the population, unfortunately the majority of people who go and take a plant won't bring back seeds of said plant later on, plus, if those seeds are crossed with another plant of the same species but of a different location (say a Carolina flava and a Florida flava), then you've just corrupted the gene pool of the whole population. There are already noticeable differences in populations of flava and meshing them together will be harmful to the general ecology

rayneger wrote: I didn't use flavas to cover up. The only thing i said about vfts taken from the wild was that i don't mind if they're taken by non experienced growers that don't have a liscense. I believe that people can do good things and help rebuild the community by taking a few from the wild, propogating more, and getting seeds. After that they should bring them back. You don't have to be a botanist to help the community. I think that is what your trying to get. As well you are trying to egg people on. Not only that you are now being a little rude in what your saying. Keep it calm if we continue this topic.<br/>
Now I have to call you out on this because you just posted that you don't agree with taking endangered plants but you just said it was okay for inexperienced growers to take a vft (which are endangered)
I'm sorry that people are attacking you in the way that they are, but you have to understand that you're posting this in a community that has great admiration for these plants and wants to conserve the species and genetic diversity of these species so saying that taking even a small amount is okay is not going to resonate well with the majority of the community
Last edited by SFLguy on Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By Morpheus
Posts:  234
Joined:  Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:19 am
#228841
I think it's time for this thread to be shut down.... It's obviously derailed from its original purpose, the celebration of over 1000 poached flytraps being returned. I can only see this getting worse and worse

I do acknowledge that I did contribute to this earlier on in a rather hasty/bold way. I apologize for that. I think this thread may start to get a little vicious and attacking. As mentioned in the posts below we are a very passionate bunch about our beloved flytraps. That passion leads some of us, myself included, to make accusatory statements towards others in defense of our beliefs. I hope this discussion will level off but if not it may get very ugly very quickly.
Last edited by Morpheus on Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By rayneger
Posts:  311
Joined:  Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:47 pm
#228847
SFL guy, i have a deep love for plants, and thank you for respecting my idea and opinion. What i mean by inexperienced growers are people like us that don't have a degree in botany. That is all i meant by that. I should have used growers that dont have an education in botany.
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By SFLguy
Posts:  1726
Joined:  Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:29 am
#228849
rayneger wrote:SFL guy, i have a deep love for plants, and thank you for respecting my idea and opinion. What i mean by inexperienced growers are people like us that don't have a degree in botany. That is all i meant by that. I should have used growers that dont have an education in botany.
I have no doubt that you have a deep love for plants otherwise you wouldn't be here, and although I still don't agree, that is a better terminology. If you truly do feel compelled to take a plant, the most I'd do is return a division of the plant, by introducing new plants you could be inadvertently corrupting the genes of the population. The importance of having separate gene pools comes into play when you have species like S. Rosea that separated from S. Purpurea or S. Alabamensis (hope that's spelled right but it looks off) from Rubra, these come from populations that eventually changed enough to be considered a different species and mixing the genes would mess with the emergence of possible new species and varieties, at least that's how I view it
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By rayneger
Posts:  311
Joined:  Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:47 pm
#228850
i respect that. As well i think taking any plant is wrong if it messes up genes. But you see groups like ICPS take them from the wild, as well other people do it when bogs are getting killed by road work...
So if people believe that excavating plants from the wild is wrong, I guess we should let them die by road construction, lol. But i'm not saying steal them from protected bogs, I'm saying that if you see a bog in the forest, or in a unprotected area, I would take some plants, and then cultivate them. After doing so i would put 3/4 of my divisions back in the wild. This does not include vfts from the wild since these are endangered species.
By KissMegan
Posts:  660
Joined:  Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:07 am
#228851
SundewWolf wrote:
This is rarely the case. I repeat: THIS IS RARELY THE CASE! Like I said, the work I've seen done at undergrad, grad, and doctoral levels is all the same: atrocious. You would consider the published reports fiction if you were actually there seeing their projects happen. Please don't trust someone just because they have a degree.
No offense, but I would hardly base the integrity of all researchers/scientists on what you've seen by some people at a university.
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By SFLguy
Posts:  1726
Joined:  Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:29 am
#228853
rayneger wrote:i respect that. As well i think taking any plant is wrong if it messes up genes. But you see groups like ICPS take them from the wild, as well other people do it when bogs are getting killed by road work...
So if people believe that excavating plants from the wild is wrong, I guess we should let them die by road construction, lol. But i'm not saying steal them from protected bogs, I'm saying that if you see a bog in the forest, or in a unprotected area, I would take some plants, and then cultivate them. After doing so i would put 3/4 of my divisions back in the wild. This does not include vfts from the wild since these are endangered species.
Oh I mean if the site is going to be destroyed, by all means go for it (but check first with the appropriate groups to make sure they aren't already doing something about it). The ICPS prior to taking plants would (at least I hope) first do at least some form of study (not formal) to assure minimal complications, plus by saying that any grower can go in and take plants, you have the probability that inexperienced growers will come and take plants that won't survive because they don't know how to properly take care of them
By KissMegan
Posts:  660
Joined:  Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:07 am
#228854
I think making snide comments in response to something that didn't even address you is stirring the pot.
I would hardly say that my disagreement to an over exaggerated statement is stirring anything.
I agree this thread should be closed. If you don't call this trolling then I'm really not sure what it is.
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By SFLguy
Posts:  1726
Joined:  Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:29 am
#228855
Haha, the moment Matt leaves on vacation, a heated argument pops up, sorry Matt, looks like we're not gonna let you relax while you're gone huh?
By Dionae
Posts:  4291
Joined:  Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:03 am
#228873
Obviously Megan has certain convictions about poaching. Her voicing her opinion isnt stirring the pot anymore than you voicing yours. Nothing is wrong with these type of threads either...ppl should just step back, check out their CPs and remember that not everyone will agree on everything.

For instance, I hate skin tight jeans but I won't get mad if you wear them haha.
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