newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

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Brildayr

 
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newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Brildayr » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:18 pm

I'm completely new to CPs and am working on not killing my plants! I originally had this terrarium in a front window of my office, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't getting enough light. There is a 10ft overhang in front of the office. i've since moved it back into my office once I got my new SMD LED light. I'm wondering what you think of my setup, and especially what I should change. I've had them under the new light for about a week. I also believe I was over watering them when they were up front because once i let all of the water disappear from underneath in the rocks, they started to grow like weeds.

********** edit ***********
I'm in central Missouri
***************************

Once I moved them under the new light, they struggled a little. The sundew seemed to perc up first. The Crested is doing good now I think. The Muscupula isn't so happy yet.

I think my soil might not be deep enough. There is rock on the bottom, maybe an inch. The soil depth above the rocks is approx. 1 1/2".

Light, purchased from ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plant-Grow-60-SMD-LED-Red-UV-Blue-Light-Bulb-110V-E27-USA-Engineer-Certified-/280868948760?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&hash=item4165180b18
60SMD LED (20 Red 600Nm & 40 UV Blue 400Nm)
110 Volts AC
10 Watts
Luminous Flux - 800LM (Ultraviolet (UVA) & Red Range Combined)
Inspected and Certified in the USA by an Engineer!
Works in standard 110V AC House Screw in Socket (E27)
Not Dimmable.
smd_led_60.jpg
60 SMD LEDs 10W 800LM
smd_led_60.jpg (86.98 KiB) Viewed 4471 times


here is a pic on how its setup. Do I have the light too close?
terrarium.jpg
Terrarium setup
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My sundew came this way. Like the ice cream dome on an ice cream cone. Should I split this up and if so how. (I B clueless)
doc_sundew.jpg
Sundew ice cream cone
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doc_sundew_sideview.jpg
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My Crested Petiole seems to be doing fine and handling all of the changes I've put it through.
doc_crested_petioles.jpg
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My poor dionaea Muscupula is struggling as I figure out wtf I'm doing. I could really use some help here.
doc_dionaea_muscupula.jpg
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Last edited by Brildayr on Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cyph3r_gfy
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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by cyph3r_gfy » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:27 pm

Yellow and droopy is usually a symptom of not enough light. How soon after adding the lamp were the pictures taken?

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Brildayr » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:26 pm

cyph3r_gfy wrote:Yellow and droopy is usually a symptom of not enough light. How soon after adding the lamp were the pictures taken?

The 26th or the 27th of December is when I moved them to the new light.

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by cyph3r_gfy » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:52 pm

I'd give them a little more time. I don't know where you are from, but where I live it is primetime dormancy; The growth rate is already incredibly slow. It could be that they are stressed from the light change as well as light deprived (from previous lighting), and it'll take a little more time for them to recover fully. Take another pic in a few days, and compare. To quote someone else here, "as long as there is green there is hope."

As far as your sundew is concerned, sorry no experience there.

I think my soil might not be deep enough. There is rock on the bottom, maybe an inch. The soil depth above the rocks is approx. 1 1/2".

I am going to say, definately not deep enough. You have time, however. I wouldn't make too many changes too quickly. Flytrap's root systems grow down, not out. In the spring, I would consider moving them to a tall pot with a drainage hole. I am not a fan of traps in a terrarium, but that's my personal opinion. There are a couple factors that I base that opinion on, such as lack of drainage, and an enclosed space limiting ventilation with the potential for dangerously high temperatures.

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Brildayr » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:10 pm

I'll wait a few days and see how it goes. It looks like they are still trying to grow new leaves, patience for now.

the sundew looks like its 20 seperate plants, I've never seen one before, so no clue.

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Ras » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:25 pm

yea you can split the sundews up (saw your other post)
but im gonna tell you now I really dont think 10watt led will be strong enough for these guys, they like full sun and if they cant get that strong light is usually needed so the traps can move and close and so the sundews can produce trichomes and dew
that light is fancy and it looks nice but I really wouldnt expect it to get too great of results
that being said you can get a 20-30watt compact fluorescent bulb from walmart or lowes or homedepot for like 2$
and it fits in any average light bulb socket and its 5000000x better for them aslong as it says "cool white" or "color temperature 6400k". it doesnt have to be exactly 6400k but somewhere in the 6000's range and it will be great.

when buying these dont mistake "volts" for "watts"
it can have a high number of volts and still be a very weak light, you want around 25watts at the least. the higher the better

also I wouldn't recommend getting anything lower then 6000k when it comes to the tempeture, because the lower that number is the hotter the bulb will be , , thus the further you will have to have the bulb from the plant, which is less light for the plant
it can go low as like 3000k or even lower. you don't want those bulbs
you can use them for blooming but they aren't great for actual growing

SO
in conclusion
20- 25watt(or higher, the higher the better) compact fluorescent bulb. Color temperature "Cool white" or "6400k" (give or take)

and for the record the 'k' on the end of the number stands for "kelvin"
so it may be written as "6400 kelvin", same thing.
or it may not even say a number, just a set of words like "cold white" or "cool white". those would be just fine
BUT don't mistake that for "soft white"....soft white is actually pretty hot.








second thing I want to add is about the terrarium, it isnt beneficial to the flytrap and it can actually rot its leaves from too much wetness, ontop of that if there is no drainage in the pot the roots can rot aswell and usually do, at least in my case
they are better off in a average garden pot with good drainage, sit the pot in a tray of water and its perfect. the water soaks up from the bottom keeping the leaves dry and safe from rot, fungus or even water drops turning into magnifying glasses under the light and burning the leaves (yes, it can happen)
as long as you dont keep them standing in a tray of water 7 days a week they usually do fine. just fill the tray with water let it soak up until it stops being able to take in any more water, then empty whats left in the tray out and you wont have to water again for a few days or so
thats how I do it, keeps a balanced amount of water so its not going to ever dry out or rot from too much slop and wetness

the sundews on the other hand, usually can handle being waterlogged and they love the humidity , as long as they are warm they do just fine in terrariums , just make sure they aren't being over heated and cooked, little plastic and glass jars get hot fast .

thats all the advice I can think of at 5 in the morning, good luck man

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Brildayr » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:29 am

They're definitely getting a new planter. I got my eye on one at Lowes.

You confirmed what I'm finding out. I was overwatering and that letting them almost dry out is a good thing. They seem to grow like weeds once the soil starts thinking about drying out.

Probably getting another light. However, I'll continue to use LEDs. I have to feed my geek! Its probably not a good idea to try and directly compare CFL and LED via wattage since LEDs tend to have a much higher lumens per watt ratio. You did make me think more and throw some math at it. I definitely thank you for that! My light is rated at 800 lumens. Typical 20-25w CFL is around 1100-1600w (only did a quick google check). The plants seem to be pulling out of their moving shock, I do think you're right and I'm a little short on light. I'll probably add another 10w LED. That will put me at 1600 lumens at 20w which is slightly less wattage than a 25w 1600 lumen CFL. I eventually want to get a good LED panel or two, especially if I expand my CP real estate holdings.

CFL 25w
1600lm/25= 64lm/w

LED 2x10w
1600lm/20= 80lm/w

I'm wondering how much I can discount the supposed "unusable" parts of the light spectrum from a white light source? If so, then it makes it more efficient since I'm not wasting power on those parts of the spectrum. Pure speculation on my part!

P.S.
I have a degree in electronics and my time in the military was radios, crypto gear and TOW missile systems :) I can do Ohm's Law in my sleep. Kelvins I didn't deal with even on the thermal sights of the TOW.

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Ras » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:01 am

Brildayr wrote:They're definitely getting a new planter. I got my eye on one at Lowes.

You confirmed what I'm finding out. I was overwatering and that letting them almost dry out is a good thing. They seem to grow like weeds once the soil starts thinking about drying out.

Probably getting another light. However, I'll continue to use LEDs. I have to feed my geek! Its probably not a good idea to try and directly compare CFL and LED via wattage since LEDs tend to have a much higher lumens per watt ratio. You did make me think more and throw some math at it. I definitely thank you for that! My light is rated at 800 lumens. Typical 20-25w CFL is around 1100-1600w (only did a quick google check). The plants seem to be pulling out of their moving shock, I do think you're right and I'm a little short on light. I'll probably add another 10w LED. That will put me at 1600 lumens at 20w which is slightly less wattage than a 25w 1600 lumen CFL. I eventually want to get a good LED panel or two, especially if I expand my CP real estate holdings.

CFL 25w
1600lm/25= 64lm/w

LED 2x10w
1600lm/20= 80lm/w

I'm wondering how much I can discount the supposed "unusable" parts of the light spectrum from a white light source? If so, then it makes it more efficient since I'm not wasting power on those parts of the spectrum. Pure speculation on my part!

P.S.
I have a degree in electronics and my time in the military was radios, crypto gear and TOW missile systems :) I can do Ohm's Law in my sleep. Kelvins I didn't deal with even on the thermal sights of the TOW.


yea I see
but the thing is it isn't all about lumens though
the color range of the light has a big factor, there is useable light and unusable light
the cfls 6400k lights mimic natural daylight so there is more useable lightwaves making it easier for the plant to put the light into use , that ontop of the fact one bulb is twice as bright as one of the leds and im guessing its probably cheaper too

all around I would just recommend cfls, they really cant be beaten when it comes to inexpensive lighting. with the exception of those 2foot t5 tubes. those are extremely powerful.

example
http://i42.tinypic.com/11c4ks1.jpg

that was the nicest healthiest capensis I've ever grown and it was done with 2 20 watt cfls :P

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Brildayr » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:24 am

Update to my setup. I replaced the LED light for a 43W CFL around 1600lm about two weeks after that last post.

Here is a pic of how it was setup.
Repotted CPs 033.JPG
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Everything really started perking up after that. I had to adjust the light an inch or two. I also was getting my backside kicked trying to figure out watering. I was still over-watering. The VFTs really do like to be close to dry before I water them again. The sundew finally started getting some dew. The last several days the Crested (the better looking VFT) started getting lots of color. Two of the new growing traps got a red stripe all the way up the side, and it looks like all of its traps are going to have some red in them!
Repotted CPs 003.JPG
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This evening I finally repotted my CPs! Got them out of the terrarium. The lamp on the left has the 42w CFL and the right has a 23w one. I can get 23w ones for about $5 at Menards. Both are Cool White. The 42w one cost almost $20.
Repotted CPs 034.JPG
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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Brildayr » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:42 am

My two new pots are both self watering. The one with the wick and float is made by Apollo Plastics. Menards had them on sale for $3 each! Its supposed to have slits in the bottom, but most of them were blocked or not fully formed. Its soft plastic and the dremel would gum up, so I got a mini hand drill and drilled holes instead.
Repotted CPs 017.JPG
Apollo Plastics
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The white blob in the hole of the below picture is the wick hanging down below in the resevoir.
Repotted CPs 021.JPG
Wick
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Repotted CPs 023.JPG
float
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Self-watering pot from Lowe's.
Repotted CPs 026.JPG
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Next several days I'll see how they do.

Soil:
5 parts Canadian Spagnum Peat
3 parts silica sand (pool filter sand)
2 parts Perlite
Repotted CPs 015.JPG
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Repotted CPs 014.JPG
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Measured dry, added distilled water and mixed by hand. After I repotted, I watered down both pots pretty good, it drained and halfway filled the bottom resevoirs.

So, I'll see if I did any good after a few days!

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Ras » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:11 am

very nice
looks like you got it all under control
but one thing, if the vfts dont end up getting broader leaves or if they stop making traps all together you can move the light closer
judge by the pic it looks like you still have quite a bit of a gap that you can close before you have to worry about the bulb temps

it all looks great though
GL man

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Brildayr » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:19 am

Thanks Ras!
I'm still learning. I think I fried a few leaves and traps when I went to the big CFL initially. Its nice getting input that I may be able to move the lights closer later.

I've got one more trick up my sleeve for the watering system if the plants take well to the self-watering. I'll save that one for later :)

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by pieguy452 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:43 am

Nice setup and interesting pot, can't say I've seen one like that :)
A confessed carnivorous plantaholic

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Brildayr » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:30 am

New setup for home. 4ft Jump Start. I swapped out the single T5 for a dual T8 fixture. The pics show all of my pots, I pulled the two from my office, they'll live at home now. I also split the sundew up and its spread across all of the pots. The little green cups also have sundews in them.

New Setup at Home 001web.jpg
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New Setup at Home 002web.jpg
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One of the pots will go back to the office and I have a "unique" watering system for it. Pics of it once I get it up and running.

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Re: newbie, terrarium and LED lighting

by Brildayr » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:25 am

Watering system for home. Self watering dog water bowl and some aquarium air supply tubing and parts. I had big plans for the valve assembly, but it failed and leaked miserably. That's why its in the bowl. I disconnected it from the tubing and its serving as a weight to keep the tube in the bowl for the time being. I had bought some air stones to put on the ends of the pieced of tubing to act as weights to keep the ends down. The stones didn't seem to allow the water to flow and crippled the syphon effect. The main job of the coasters under the pots is to adjust the height of the water level in the resevoirs.

I found some brass tubing connectors that I plan to use as weights, since the air stones failed. I need to remember to purchase them!

Mortar and pestle to turn the dried bloodworms to powder for my drosera spatulata. It was cheap too, only $10 at a local kitchen store. They like that, but I have to be careful to not overfeed them.


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