Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

Discuss water requirements, "soil" (growing media) and suitable planting containers
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Tony C

 
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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by Tony C » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:13 am

I have had no rot issues with my LFS plants even with our weeks of cold and rainy spring. I would look for contributing issues, maybe sunburn leaving them open to infection? Healthy plants shouldn't be harmed by water.

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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by jamez » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:15 am

They rot when you pack the sphagnum or have cheap sphagnum. If i's airy you can keep them sopping wet. They like that opposed to moist.

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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by 95slvrZ28 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:57 am

Tony C wrote:Healthy plants shouldn't be harmed by water.

They probably can't be harmed by water itself, but they can be harmed by rot which is most commonly caused by a water mold. Wet conditions all the time gives you a higher probability that your plant can be infected by the mold.

jamez wrote:They rot when you pack the sphagnum or have cheap sphagnum. If i's airy you can keep them sopping wet. They like that opposed to moist.

Well I certainly didn't pack it tightly, so maybe it's cheap, bad sphagnum. I certainly didn't go out of my way to get that "superior New Zealand sphagnum moss" everyone raves about, maybe my experiences would be different then. I'm simply stating my experiences with the potting medium as of now, nothing more.

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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by Tony C » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:41 am

As I said before, my plants have been very wet and cold at times since our spring weather has swung between various extremes. For what it's worth I am using New Zealand sphagnum and wouldn't bother with the low grade North American stuff, but since you seem to want to make snarky comments toward myself and others offering suggestions and experiences I guess you can just figure it out on your own.

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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by jamez » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:49 pm

Tony C wrote:As I said before, my plants have been very wet and cold at times since our spring weather has swung between various extremes. For what it's worth I am using New Zealand sphagnum and wouldn't bother with the low grade North American stuff, but since you seem to want to make snarky comments toward myself and others offering suggestions and experiences I guess you can just figure it out on your own.


I think he's using his knowledge from peat and trying to apply it to LFS, when it's a whole different medium and requires different care.

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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by 95slvrZ28 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:02 pm

Tony C wrote:I am using New Zealand sphagnum and wouldn't bother with the low grade North American stuff, but since you seem to want to make snarky comments toward myself and others offering suggestions and experiences I guess you can just figure it out on your own.

My statement was simply one of fact, nothing more.
Root rot is caused by a water mold.
Keeping a plant constantly in water means there is more water.
More water gives a higher probability for there to be water mold.

Perhaps the nicer sphagnum is more airy and as such there is not enough surface area for the mold to reproduce and infect the plant or there is some natural bacteria that fights it off. Either way neither of those help me as of now since I don't have any of the nice moss.

I'm not trying to discard advice given, I just happen to keep getting the same advice. When someone tells me "keep your plants constantly wet in sphagnum" and I say "ok, they're rotting, what should I do?" the advice I'm given is "well I keep mine wet in New Zealand Sphagnum." So it appears since I've tried the correct watering method really the advice I'm given is "get nice sphagnum." Unfortunately for the sake of consistency uprooting the plants really isn't an option as of now so I'm going to have to make due. More than likely by not keeping them always wet...

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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by jamez » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:48 pm

"More water gives a higher probability for there to be water mold"
This is why plants in plain old peat moss rot more easily than

This is when there is no aeration.

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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by Tony C » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:56 am

As promised, here are some root pics of LFS grown plants taken while packing for the move to SC:
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As you can see they are long, thick, and healthy with no trace of rot or other problems.

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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by BenWilliam » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:37 am

For my two cents, if I had to choose, I'd say that the peat has a small advantage in terms of encouraging more vigorous growth. When I divided these pots, both showed very good root systems, all which extended to the very bottom of the tubs.

I have been growing a pot of each for a while, both have their pro's and cons, but look at the results below. If I have a preference, it is probably peat moss due to the lower cost as well as it's demonstrated increase in vigor.

Peat Moss - Canadian Sphagnum Peat, sand, perlite, pine needles:
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LFS - Long Fibred Sphagnum, sand perlite, pine needles:
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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by anthony89uk » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:37 am

since there is no proven method im going to combine everyones ideas someone mentioned wrapping the roots in long fibre then planting in pot. im going to do this with the long fibres dangling down to the bottom of the pot so that the long fibres decay around the roots also allow the roots to breath and let the long fibre soak up the water.

i will then use a perlite / peat mix around the sides to hold more water also it will better insulate my root system also i will put a small coat over the top as the long fibre aynt that pretty when it starts to decay.

any thoughts on this idea of combining both ideas?

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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by Steve_D » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:40 pm

anthony89uk wrote:any thoughts on this idea of combining both ideas?

Lots of people experiment, and we all gain from each other's experiences, so just let us know how things work out with whatever potting material and methods you try. :) I've tried many myself. I'm currently experimenting with a sphagnum-free mix of sand, pine needles, orchid bark (small evergreen bark pieces) and plan to add desalinated coir to that mix for a grow next year. In addition, I've tried many coir mixes with no sphagnum, with varying results from very good to not so good depending on various environmental conditions and other factors. I still use coir in many mixes, but have turned away from using it alone (with just sand or perlite) as a mix, prefering to add it to other mixes whether they include sphagnum in some form or not.

Anyway, there are many things to try, so have fun. :)

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Re: Long-fibered-sphagnum versus peat-based soil mixes

by anthony89uk » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:48 pm

iv found a guy on ebay selling Irish Peat Moss with this decription would you say its ok just i read to avoid evergreen products:

Evergreen Irish Moss Peat is a traditional screened medium grade peat.

Evergreen Irish Moss Peat is made from carefully selected sphagnum mosses that are screened and blended to produce a superior product, not only for retailing but for the professional grower.
The raw material for our peat production is harvested from large raised bog areas which have developed under favourable climatic conditions. This is the natural habitat for the sphagnum moss which is solely used in the production of the Evergreen Irish Traditional Moss Peat Range.
Peat provides a healthy environment to promote plant growth.

A natural product, free from artificial additives, it ensures easy maintenance by assisting sandy soil to retain water and nutrients and opens up heavy soils and generally improves the structure of all soil types.

Ideal use as a soil conditioner, for planting out, mulching compost and making lawn improvement.


this should be ok to use with a mix of perlite and long fibre sphagnum moss i have?

thanks

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