FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

Greetings,
Your help or advice is greatly appreciated as this carnivorous plant parent is in pain. As I've begun my second set of carnivorous plants, I requested and received (with VERY much difficulty during the process) over 200+ seeds of 6 different species from the Carnivorous Plant Society. Seeing as this is a paid membership for use of their seed bank yearly, and also due to the sheer volume of seeds I received, I thought certainly by now at least some would have germinated in similar conditions as the other carnivorous plants I'd successfully grown first. However, it has been 7-10 weeks (depending on the species, plus some obviously required different stratification lengths and strategies, which add a few to several weeks onto that - I've even done a few as 1/2 and 1/2 stratified differently or some so & not at all to see if there are different results) and NONE of the seeds have germinated: NONE. I've done extensive research from many sites, including this one, and have done all as appropriate for stratification, germination, and prepared environments for their various needs after sprouting (hopefully.) What's more, I had inquired a few times with CPS to see how old these seeds were before they were sent to me, and there has not been any response - though I have previously heard they were rather dependable from members on this forum and theirs, so I'm puzzled...

The seeds are temporarily (as I also have a greenhouse for grown plants & another growing area) in a germination tank near the top with 1/2 covers, keeping 76-82 F temperatures regularly night and day, 50-75% humidity within the enclosure, fan ventilation from top (not shown in picture due to distance& placement,) peat moss and perlite (mixed at various levels of each per species recommendations) rinsed many times over with R/O water until there was no dust or cloudiness in either, the seeds were sprinkled on top (most are almost impossible to see on the dark, wet medium) with a very, very light dusting of peat moss dust that I sifted through fabric sprinkled about, the water tray that is filled and cleaned (safely of course) weekly, soil mix is always moist but not water logged, they receive tons (about 16 hrs full cycle) of light from the plant spectrum Fluval nano LEDs (7500K 1000lm 6 band light with 24 hour changing light cycle) and the T8 Fluorescent Aqueon full spectrum FloraMax light (I have a different UFO red, blue, white, infrared, and uva/uvb LED light for the Greenhouse when not outdoors.) You can see photos of my germination setup at https://sites.google.com/view/jessica-teeters/vfts.

There was for a short time some white fuzzy mold popping up randomly here or there, but that has stopped for quite some time now since I dabbed those areas of medium with a q-tip of neem oil. I've read here that this should not hurt the seeds in any way, so it shouldn't be that - nonetheless in such targeted, small doses. Any advice, tips, help? I feel like I'm at a loss. It'd be greatly appreciated!

It would help a lot to know what species you received, before any advice or explanations can be given.

What species were you working with?
You mentioned stratification so I assume some were temperate species.
I usually stratify temperate seeds for 8 weeks in refrigerated 34 - 36 degree wet/damp conditions.
Usually Sarracenia and Drosera germinate within 4 - 6 weeks given this treatment, but I've had seeds wait a year, germinating the following Spring.

I've had fair luck contacting the ICPS seed bank.
The manager now is Joe Griffin.
He is usually found in the vicinity of the CP Facebook Groups.

Maybe they were fried in shipping. It is hot outside, not the best time to be sending seeds.

mouthstofeed wrote:Maybe they were fried in shipping. It is hot outside, not the best time to be sending seeds.

Seeds are pretty tolerant — this shouldn’t really be an issue for most species. I’ve never had problems sending or receiving seed in the summer and I’m in Texas.

Here are the species I'm working with, so yes some had stratification methods applied to them. Again, I had so many that some species that had mixed results from stratifying or not were split up into 1/2 being stratified and 1/2 not just to see. I used the stratification Shadowtski mentioned, except for many of the Stylidium which required a hot stratification and some of the Sarracenia were rubbed with sandpaper for their hard seed shells, some not.

Cephalotus Follicularis typical
D. Muscipula mixed
D. anglica
D. Montana var tomentosa , Serra de Carraca
S. Judith Hindle op
Stylidium macranthum

They were actually shipped to me twice: once toward late last year/early this year then again in late February due to Post Office error. Then stratified (to those applicable) and sown onto their soil. They did come from the UK to here (Indiana) through the USDA, but the first time the label wasn't read correctly so it was sent back and then re-mailed to me again: this took months. Could it be because they were air mailed and then post mailed in colder climates back and forth so much for an extended period of time before I got them?

RhysKi wrote:Here are the species I'm working with, so yes some had stratification methods applied to them. Again, I had so many that some species that had mixed results from stratifying or not were split up into 1/2 being stratified and 1/2 not just to see. I used the stratification Shadowtski mentioned, except for many of the Stylidium which required a hot stratification and some of the Sarracenia were rubbed with sandpaper for their hard seed shells, some not.

Cephalotus Follicularis typical
D. Muscipula mixed
D. anglica
D. Montana var tomentosa , Serra de Carraca
S. Judith Hindle op
Stylidium macranthum

They were actually shipped to me twice: once toward late last year/early this year then again in late February due to Post Office error. Then stratified (to those applicable) and sown onto their soil. They did come from the UK to here (Indiana) through the USDA, but the first time the label wasn't read correctly so it was sent back and then re-mailed to me again: this took months. Could it be because they were air mailed and then post mailed in colder climates back and forth so much for an extended period of time before I got them?

that's another thing I always wonder about. radiation. there is a lot more radiation at high altitudes than at ground. air travelers get a good dose of radiation while in the air. I wonder how insulated mail cargo holds are. it's also cold up there, and I don't think the airplanes worry about keeping mail warm. maybe it was all too much for your seeds.

The one picture of the fly trap seedlings describing the blackening traps the media looks a little dry to me which could ultimately lead to death in seedlings as they don't have much root to take up water.

I'm not sure where you got your information on scratching sarracenia seed coats with sandpaper, but it certainly is not necessary. Maybe I missed it but how did you stratify these seeds? If they weren't wet enough during the cold period the seed coat will not break.

As for the ceph seeds those can sometimes take a long time to germinate depending on the freshness of the seed though in my experience a good wet, cold period will decrease that time frame fairly well. I've heard up to a year if I remember correctly, but mine were fresh and they germinated relatively quickly.

D.anglica is this the tropical form or the temperate form? How were these stratisfied?

All of these seeds germination rates could be effected by the storage of the seeds prior to you recieving them as well as how long were they stored.

The other two I've never tried to germinate so I'll leave those to someone who has.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

boarderlib wrote:The one picture of the fly trap seedlings describing the blackening traps the media looks a little dry to me which could ultimately lead to death in seedlings as they don't have much root to take up water.

I'm not sure where you got your information on scratching sarracenia seed coats with sandpaper, but it certainly is not necessary. Maybe I missed it but how did you stratify these seeds? If they weren't wet enough during the cold period the seed coat will not break.

As for the ceph seeds those can sometimes take a long time to germinate depending on the freshness of the seed though in my experience a good wet, cold period will decrease that time frame fairly well. I've heard up to a year if I remember correctly, but mine were fresh and they germinated relatively quickly.

D.anglica is this the tropical form or the temperate form? How were these stratisfied?

All of these seeds germination rates could be effected by the storage of the seeds prior to you recieving them as well as how long were they stored.

The other two I've never tried to germinate so I'll leave those to someone who has.

Thanks for the feedback. For the Sarracenia seeds, I did scarify (process of making the outer shell slightly easier to permeate by using extremely fine sandpaper on them lightly) about 1/2 of the seeds; and the other half I left alone. I had so many seeds that I decided to do 1/2 stratified or 1/2 not depending on the species and recommendations from multiple sources. Not all received stratification, such as the Dionaea for instance. For stratifying the majority of the ones I did cold-stratify, they were in baggies of water in their containers while in the refrigerator for their various necessary time periods then slowly acclimated to the germinating conditions I described after that. So, they must have been moist enough as I checked and aired them out a bit daily during the process. I know Cephalotus can take a very long time, but expected a bit of a quicker turn around on the Droseras and Dionaea at least. Unfortunately, I do not know for how long they were stored or in what conditions before I finally received them...

So 1/4 of the sarracenia seeds you used scarification, 1/4 you didn't, 1/4 you used scarification and stratified, and 1/4 you did nothing? Is that what you are saying?

What are these multiple sources? I really would like to know where you got your information from.

"Then slowly acclimated to germination conditions." What do you mean? There's no need for acclimation of a seed. Pull it from the fridge put it in a pot, and light it up.

You showed pictures of the dionaea seedlings, but you're saying they didn't germinate. If they died off after germination that is not failure to germinate, that's a grower error. Not that we all haven't made mistakes before that's the best way to learn sometimes.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

The seed could be somewhat to fairly old, which can slow germination, and 7-10 weeks really isn’t that long, even for fresh seed. I’d start worrying after 6 months or so.

boarderlib wrote:So 1/4 of the sarracenia seeds you used scarification, 1/4 you didn't, 1/4 you used scarification and stratified, and 1/4 you did nothing? Is that what you are saying?

What are these multiple sources? I really would like to know where you got your information from.

"Then slowly acclimated to germination conditions." What do you mean? There's no need for acclimation of a seed. Pull it from the fridge put it in a pot, and light it up.

You showed pictures of the dionaea seedlings, but you're saying they didn't germinate. If they died off after germination that is not failure to germinate, that's a grower error. Not that we all haven't made mistakes before that's the best way to learn sometimes.

Basically, but no. I did stratify all of the Sarracenia as I was under the impression for them it was necessary, but scarified only 1/2 based on the fact that the Sarracenia has a waxy coating making it hydrophobic. I got my information from the International Carnivorous Plant Society, the Australian Native Plants Society (for some,) Flytrapcare.com, and CPUK forums. Also, what I meant by slowly acclimating is that I simply did not want to shock the seeds right after taking them out of the fridge and slowly over a week or so increased the amount of light daily - that's all.

In regards to the seedlings you keep referring to on my website page, those are older ones and an older issue which was already addressed. I've been inquiring about my new, second batch of seeds.

Benurmanii wrote:The seed could be somewhat to fairly old, which can slow germination, and 7-10 weeks really isn’t that long, even for fresh seed. I’d start worrying after 6 months or so.

Thank you. One person on another forum even said that they had seeds sown in September 2017 that did nothing at all, and now this spring they are jumping up like weeds. I will try to keep my patience (and keep in mind that my high electricity bill will pay off with seedlings soon.) Perhaps I'll put in a separate pot with some other plant that can grow in similar conditions just to have something green in there in the meantime.... maybe a bonsai? I'm not sure what else can co-habitate with them.