FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

sbrooks, looks like I am going to order Alien, Cudo, Green Wizard, Jaws Smiley, Louchapates, and Whale from them! Thanks for posting that link again!

weaver wrote:I would say it is pretty subjective and as the old adage goes "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder".

Exactly! And in the US, most beholders of the eyes like the giant flytraps. Much more than in the EU.

weaver wrote:I have progressed more into the "freaks" of the flytrap world like trichterfalle, wacky traps, etc. (which seem under appreciated to me by most growers) But in the end I love all my flytraps!

Ditto! And Trichterfalle and Wacky Traps are two of my favorites

sbrooks wrote:From what I remember, they bid pretty high for Dracula and Mirror on Ebay. No, not $400, but the demand is still there for the exclusive unique cultivar.

Yes, that's true. There is a small group of dedicated Dionaea lovers that seem willing to bid pretty high on new releases of rare and unusual flytraps. But unlike the market for giant flytraps, that market is fairly quickly saturated. Again, I believe this to be the reason no large company has made an attempt to propagate and market a large variety of flytraps but rather most large TC operations pick a nice plant or two to clone and distribute.

sbrooks wrote:By the way, is that Purple Ambush I hear growing in the background?

There are a few out there in the greenhouses now. Most are still under lights, but will be making their way out into the real world soon. We should be able to offer some by mid to late summer, I think.

Holy Frijole, Weaver, I've looked at that site several times and never realized that there was a link to order. (Bye bye, kids' college fund!) I can't imagine what shipping time and cost must be, but I think I'm going to investigate this further! Thanks in turn for pointing out the "ordering" part!

What I'm seeing, as I skim through this site, is some of the common cultivars looking amazingly more colorful than I've seen them before. Perhaps more photo-shopping?

sbrooks wrote:Holy Frijole, Weaver, I've looked at that site several times and never realized that there was a link to order. (Bye bye, kids' college fund!) I can't imagine what shipping time and cost must be, but I think I'm going to investigate this further! Thanks in turn for pointing out the "ordering" part!

Ya it is definitely expensive especially when taking into account the conversion rate to US dollars and proper certificates that you have to purchase in order to ship them overseas, along with shipping costs like you mentioned... Luckily for me, I have a full ride to college and on top of that I have a lot of additional funding from different scholarships (so essentially I am getting paid to go to college ). So I am able to purchase these without it really hurting any of my current investments, savings, etc. I am still new to how this process works (ordering/shipping from overseas), so I thought it would be a good opportunity to learn and add some cultivars to my collection!

sbrooks wrote:What I'm seeing, as I skim through this site, is some of the common cultivars looking amazingly more colorful than I've seen them before. Perhaps more photo-shopping?

And that is a possibility (maybe some color enhancing), but I couldn't say for sure. They also could of taken the pictures at really good times during the growing season too!

My guess is that by late June or July nearly all seeds set by wild flytraps are on the ground and germinating within 2 weeks.

I always struggle to imagine how any tiny seedlings manage to get established well enough to make it though the following winter.

I would say any of the varieties that are one solid color would be the most boring.

I never even attempted to obtain a 'Justina Davis' for that reason, but I was given one eventually. And some people find them exceptionally beautiful and I can see the beauty myself. They're just not my taste in flytraps.

I think where Justina Davis shines is amidst a collection of red-exhibiting flytraps. To be the only one with zero coloration would create that extra contrast. That's why it's on my list of fly traps to acquire. The pure, bright green would make it stand out a lot more than the mostly green typicals that get just a slight hint of orange or splotchy light coloration that appears to run down from the trigger hairs.

xr280xr wrote: I think where Justina Davis shines is amidst a collection of red-exhibiting flytraps. To be the only one with zero coloration would create that extra contrast. That's why it's on my list of fly traps to acquire. The pure, bright green would make it stand out a lot more than the mostly green typicals that get just a slight hint of orange or splotchy light coloration that appears to run down from the trigger hairs.

xr290xr, I recommend Grün also! In experience, growing them both side by side, Grün has bigger traps and more of a compact growth than Justina Davis. I know Grün is more expensive than Justina Davis, but I just thought I would give you my opinion Either way, both are great plants!

xr280xr wrote:I always struggle to imagine how any tiny seedlings manage to get established well enough to make it though the following winter.

I thought the same thing until I did it myself. I planted them in June/July and they all germinated within several weeks. I left them all outside all winter(granted my winters are probably not as bad as the Carolinas) and the only plants I lost were due to squirrels and heavy rains that uprooted the smaller seedlings.

xr280xr wrote:To be the only one with zero coloration would create that extra contrast.

Don't mean to be the bearer of bad news but I believe even Justina Davis can get a pink hue in the trap interior.

Justina Davis does occasionally develop a pink hue in the trap interior. So does Grün.

Grün is a plant I sourced from Bob Ziemer. I'm not sure who he obtained it from, but I believe it came from Europe. A couple of years ago, after I got it established in tissue culture, I sent my mother plant to Steve to grow. That's how FlytrapRanch has some to stock as well. Otherwise, I think Grün isn't in many collections here in the US. Justina Davis is much more widely distributed because David Conner has been TCing for quite a few years now.

My opinion is the same as Josh's that Grün is a superior all green flytrap to Justina. I like the larger traps and more compact growth habit.

Matt wrote:

Chas wrote:My source is me.

What is your stratification method? You've done controlled experiments with fresh seeds where you stratified some and didn't stratify others and the ones that were stratified had a higher germination rate? How many times have you performed this experiment and with how many seeds and what were the percentages? Over the last few years, I've personally sown thousands of fresh seeds without stratification and they always have a germination rate near 100%. Additionally, I've seen hundreds of people post photos of germinating flytrap seed without stratification with extremely high germination rates. And most expert growers agree that stratification of Dionaea seed is unnecessary and unnatural.

Chas wrote:My source is me. Like you said nearly. Have you ever been o the sites? They can hold the stalks until winter.

I always leave flower stalks on my plants until they die completely if I let them set seed. Stalks will die sometime soon after the seed has been set, usually within a couple of weeks. As you say, the stalks may remain much longer, but they'll be dead by mid summer. And if left to their own devices, seeds always fall off the pods by mid summer at the latest, especially if outdoors (in the greenhouse where the wind and rain can't get to them, they'll hold them a bit longer). And our growing season here in Oregon starts much later than it does in the native habitat of flytraps in North Carolina. My guess is that by late June or July nearly all seeds set by wild flytraps are on the ground and germinating within 2 weeks. It would be the exception, not the norm, for a Dionaea seed in the wild to undergo a cold stratification period.

I have done them side by side once, and at other times, I've done them separately.
If you get nearly 100% that is not 100%, that 1% difference could be a beautiful flytrap. I get the best results when I stratify, so I do it.
All the sites I've been to still have plants with some seeds in the fall.
It is also not the "norm" for flytraps to grow in plastic containers, in greenhouses, and grow in other states than NC.

Matt wrote:

sbrooks wrote:I would say any of the varieties that are one solid color would be the most boring.

I agree 100%. I never even attempted to obtain a 'Justina Davis' for that reason, but I was given one eventually. And some people find them exceptionally beautiful and I can see the beauty myself. They're just not my taste in flytraps.

sbrooks wrote:There's not a collector here who wouldn't drool over the idea of a flytrap with 5 or 6 inch traps.

No doubt! But the problem is that even the "giant" flytraps only get traps around 2 inches in size. Compare that to an average flytrap with good genetics that can get 1.5 inch or 1.75 inch traps and there isn't all that much (1/4 inch?) to be excited about, in my opinion. Again, that's just my opinion.

sbrooks wrote:Many of the smaller varieties are cool, but you almost need a magnifying glass to appreciate them! And they can't catch wasps.

Amen to that!

sbrooks wrote:I guess I'm just not sure what you're basing your assumption that the U.S. only wants big traps;

Based on the insane demand for any giant flytrap, new or well distributed. Look at the price that "Envy Giant" flytrap sold for on eBay even though there is no concrete evidence that it can get all that large. Though the seller makes claims that it can get 2" traps, there is no photo evidence of this fact.

And also based on the high market saturation point for giants. B52 has been available for many, many years and in fairly large quantities too, yet when one is listed on eBay, it routinely sells for $40 or more and they sell almost immediately when put in stock at any store. The market saturation point for the unusual, freaky flytraps is much lower.

sbrooks wrote:And Chas, I'm assuming that you either are Sam, or you know Sam. Again, no offense intended to either.

Ditto. No offense intended.

Kids, just because someone agrees with someone doesn't make them that person.
Don't exactly see how you'd think I was Sam if I've ordered only to IL and MS and Sam lives in Florida, Matt.

Also sbrooks, Sam has sold Pinnacles before. I've known them to be around for a fairly long time. I remember one bigger than the one he's selling now. Also he's not inclining anyone to buy it. It's not a ripoff. It's his cultivar, his listing, and his decision of what to make the starting bid. And the people on eBay buying B52s are usually intermediate growers who do know where to get them cheaper, they buy them because they can see a picture of the individual plant and because of the color. When I sell plants publicly, I always give them strong lights for about 2 weeks to give them more color.

Chas wrote:All the sites I've been to still have plants with some seeds in the fall.

The odd flytrap holding seeds until the fall is possible. That may rarely happen, but it certainly isn't going to be the case with the vast majority of flytraps in the wild. Even with our cold, wet spring in Oregon last year where the plants didn't really even start growing until June, all seed was set by mid July and as soon as the seed pod opens and dries, the seeds start falling to the ground and will germinate immediately. In the rare instances that seed happens to be retained on a flowerstalk until the fall, my guess is that seed would perish during the winter months.

Chas wrote:It is also not the "norm" for flytraps to grow in plastic containers, in greenhouses, and grow in other states than NC.

While that's true, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is the natural flowering and seeding process of flytraps that happens in late spring/early summer where the seeds will almost always drop to the ground before August and germinate immediately without stratification.

Chas wrote:Don't exactly see how you'd think I was Sam if I've ordered only to IL and MS and Sam lives in Florida, Matt.

I never said I thought you were Sam or that you even know him. I simply said "Ditto. No offense intended." meaning that I'm not trying to offend you or Sam in any way.

Chas wrote:I remember one bigger than the one he's selling now.

I have been watching Sam's auctions for quite a while myself and I remember quite a few Pinnacles coming up for sale; some sold, some didn't. Some were larger than the aforementioned listing, but I've still not seen a Pinnacle with traps larger than 1.5 inches or so.

Matt wrote:

Chas wrote:All the sites I've been to still have plants with some seeds in the fall.

The odd flytrap holding seeds until the fall is possible. That may rarely happen, but it certainly isn't going to be the case with the vast majority of flytraps in the wild. Even with our cold, wet spring in Oregon last year where the plants didn't really even start growing until June, all seed was set by mid July and as soon as the seed pod opens and dries, the seeds start falling to the ground and will germinate immediately. In the rare instances that seed happens to be retained on a flowerstalk until the fall, my guess is that seed would perish during the winter months.

Chas wrote:It is also not the "norm" for flytraps to grow in plastic containers, in greenhouses, and grow in other states than NC.

While that's true, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is the natural flowering and seeding process of flytraps that happens in late spring/early summer where the seeds will almost always drop to the ground before August and germinate immediately without stratification.

Chas wrote:Don't exactly see how you'd think I was Sam if I've ordered only to IL and MS and Sam lives in Florida, Matt.

I never said I thought you were Sam or that you even know him. I simply said "Ditto. No offense intended." meaning that I'm not trying to offend you or Sam in any way.

Chas wrote:I remember one bigger than the one he's selling now.

I have been watching Sam's auctions for quite a while myself and I remember quite a few Pinnacles coming up for sale; some sold, some didn't. Some were larger than the aforementioned listing, but I've still not seen a Pinnacle with traps larger than 1.5 inches or so.

I think I can remember one with traps almost at 2". But I'll probably end up buying that Pinnacle to TC it and see about the overall size.

Matt wrote:I have been watching Sam's auctions for quite a while myself and I remember quite a few Pinnacles coming up for sale; some sold, some didn't. Some were larger than the aforementioned listing, but I've still not seen a Pinnacle with traps larger than 1.5 inches or so.

I have. Sam had one up for auction last year in the Springtime. It was massive. To me it looked bigger than your DC XL stock photo and IIRC it had a 1.75 inch trap on it. It had leaves that were thick and robust that grew almost completely straight up in the air with traps on the ends that were massive.

I don't recall it going for an exceptionally high bid either. I suspect because due to its size the photo of it had to be taken at a farther distance away which may have been misleading to some people not familiar with the sizes of VFTs and it may have looked smaller to some people because of this. I don't know if this was the case 100% as to why it didn't sell for a very high price but it's my suspicion.

Personally I'm skeptical that DC XL gets as large as Pinnacle, although it would not surprise me if it does get as long as it and just lacks the robustness of Pinnacle to technically be as big. I mean what is bigger after all? Longer leaves, longer traps, or is it a heavier plant and/or more volume? I'm not convinced that DC XL is as big as B52 if you are looking at weight or volume and not just length. I'm not saying this to disparage DC XL. I don't doubt it is a very big VFT but when all these things are considered personally I'm skeptical any of the other VFTs out there are bigger than B52 is with the possible exception of Pinnacle.

King Henry makes traps that get 1.625 inches. I uploaded a photo of one last year here on FTC. IIRC, the trap tip to trap tip when I measured it was in excess of 14 inches. Or in other words it was a VFT that was over 14 inches across. But I don't think it was as big as some B52s I had in Morgan Hill 4 years ago where I used to live that had 1.75 inch traps on them and were only maybe 6 inches across because I think those B52s had greater volume and I suspect weight too. The thickest roots I've ever seen were on some of those B52s then too. King Henry is more of a delicate clone with thinner leaves and and thinner traps.

I have also seen Sam list a Guava Sawtooth on Ebay with 1.5 inch traps on it. Guava Sawtooth tans purple in the traps too. So it's more than just the odd shaped cilia that make it appealing it can also get larger than average. I'll take an odd shaped ciliad VFT that gets bigger and gets excellent trap coloration over any odd shaped ciliad VFTs that don't get as big and don't have as good coloration.

idontlikeforms wrote:

Matt wrote:I have been watching Sam's auctions for quite a while myself and I remember quite a few Pinnacles coming up for sale; some sold, some didn't. Some were larger than the aforementioned listing, but I've still not seen a Pinnacle with traps larger than 1.5 inches or so.

I have. Sam had one up for auction last year in the Springtime. It was massive. To me it looked bigger than your DC XL stock photo and IIRC it had a 1.75 inch trap on it. It had leaves that were thick and robust that grew almost completely straight up in the air with traps on the ends that were massive.

I don't recall it going for an exceptionally high bid either. I suspect because due to its size the photo of it had to be taken at a farther distance away which may have been misleading to some people not familiar with the sizes of VFTs and it may have looked smaller to some people because of this. I don't know if this was the case 100% as to why it didn't sell for a very high price but it's my suspicion.

Personally I'm skeptical that DC XL gets as large as Pinnacle, although it would not surprise me if it does get as long as it and just lacks the robustness of Pinnacle to technically be as big. I mean what is bigger after all? Longer leaves, longer traps, or is it a heavier plant and/or more volume? I'm not convinced that DC XL is as big as B52 if you are looking at weight or volume and not just length. I'm not saying this to disparage DC XL. I don't doubt it is a very big VFT but when all these things are considered personally I'm skeptical any of the other VFTs out there are bigger than B52 is with the possible exception of Pinnacle.

King Henry makes traps that get 1.625 inches. I uploaded a photo of one last year here on FTC. IIRC, the trap tip to trap tip when I measured it was in excess of 14 inches. Or in other words it was a VFT that was over 14 inches across. But I don't think it was as big as some B52s I had in Morgan Hill 4 years ago where I used to live that had 1.75 inch traps on them and were only maybe 6 inches across because I think those B52s had greater volume and I suspect weight too. The thickest roots I've ever seen were on some of those B52s then too. King Henry is more of a delicate clone with thinner leaves and and thinner traps.

I have also seen Sam list a Guava Sawtooth on Ebay with 1.5 inch traps on it. Guava Sawtooth tans purple in the traps too. So it's more than just the odd shaped cilia that make it appealing it can also get larger than average. I'll take an odd shaped ciliad VFT that gets bigger and gets excellent trap coloration over any odd shaped ciliad VFTs that don't get as big and don't have as good coloration.

I have too noticed Guava Sawtooth were above average size. I've gotten 1.25" on it this year. I suspect it takes the size for it's parents, which are both Big Mouth.

idontlikeforms wrote:I have also seen Sam list a Guava Sawtooth on Ebay with 1.5 inch traps on it.

Chas wrote:I have too noticed Guava Sawtooth were above average size. I've gotten 1.25" on it this year.

I really wish you guys had waited until after the auction closed before talking up this plant. Now everyone is going to want one.