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Pinnacle on Ebay

Discussions about anything related to Venus Flytraps, cultivars and named clones

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Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By bugman
Posts:  110
Joined:  Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:41 pm
-  Wed May 01, 2013 10:40 pm #174741
I have imported DCXL and the demand for it is minimal, people want fts yellow, maroon monster, alien, spotty, patches and hit new favourite miss pimbeche

It is true what Matt has said before in Europe we love the funky colourful ones and we have loads of them.
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Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By Chas
Posts:  44
Joined:  Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:38 am
-  Wed May 01, 2013 10:45 pm #174742
weaver wrote:Just a good 'ol fashion debate :) I don't think anyone means any harm! And I thought I would throw my 2 cents in (even though I know your questions are not directed towards me).

For the different varieties, the more popular cultivars sell out extremely quick (so you have to act fast). A lot of the times they are in stock, but will sell out the same day (DC XL for example). For other cultivars (the more recent additions like G16, Alien, etc.), I believe Matt is propagating more to supply the huge demand for them. That process takes awhile to get going and to be mass produced. There are some other online sellers that sell some different varieties, but FTS does overlap most of them that are available. I realized with this hobby, it takes a lot of patience on waiting for certain cultivars to become available! I check this website everyday (multiple times) and I am sure there are more people like me, which makes is hard to sometimes obtain a cultivar you may be eying ;)

For Chas' questions, I cannot answer for him (or Matt), but it is true you do not need to stratify Flytrap seeds. Some people do and have success with it, but it is not necessary from my experience and from what I have researched. Some plants that have been growing for 6 or 7 years may be medium in size (or small or even large)...for example the "Long Red Fingers" cultivar is small in comparison to 'B52'. So if you were to compare those cultivars of the same age, you would see a pretty big size difference.

I don't mean to offend anyone! Just throwing my opinion out there. Sorry if I misinterpreted any of the questions you threw out there :lol:
I know about seeds. I've been growing for 7 years. Not my first rodeo :D

What Sam is saying is trying to get people to do it. You get a better germination rate when you stratify the seeds. If he says optional every few people will take the easy route and get less plants. So he's trying to state one way so there's no conflict in information.

I also apologize if I seemed hostile. Just trying to make sure everyone knew a few things.
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Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By Matt
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Posts:  22523
Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
-  Wed May 01, 2013 11:03 pm #174743
Chas wrote:You get a better germination rate when you stratify the seeds.
I don't believe this to be true. What is your source? In nature they aren't stratified because the seed set happens in late spring or early summer. I have never stratified and always get nearly 100% germination rate with fresh seed. I don't know how stratification could make it any better than 100% :)
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Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By xr280xr
Posts:  2807
Joined:  Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:29 pm
-  Thu May 02, 2013 12:44 am #174758
Sorry. Did I come across as hostile? I did not mean to do so. I was simply attempting to express my opinion and contribute to the discussion. I apologize if I sounded hostile in my post.
I didn't hear hostility from anyone. I think all too often people in forums or on facebook assume there's some kind of hostile or adversarial tone if every sentence doesn't have a smiley face after it. :) I found both Matt & Chas' comments interesting.
Yes, that is unfortunate. But I think your logic is a bit backward. the reason they aren't available here is because there isn't much of a market for them! Until FlytrapStore came along, a Dionaea enthusiasts could only purchase a handful of varieties and most of them were giant flytraps with, perhaps, 3 to 5 unusual flytraps available a 2 or 3 places. There is only a very small demand for the unusual varieties, which is why none of the major TC labs have mass produced them and why they're harder to come by. I think it really takes a small store run by someone with a large variety of skills to be able to offer these plants because the return on invested time is exceptionally low, so most of the work has to be done by the same person. And hiring someone to do most of the work isn't an option if you want to actually make enough money to feed yourself.
I always appreciate your transparency into aspects of running the store. Very interesting!
there are only so many hours in the day and the plants only grow so fast :)
I hear that. I've got my Nazi HOA on my back about a dead patch in the lawn that's still trying to come back from a drought + winter dormancy.

Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By Chas
Posts:  44
Joined:  Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:38 am
-  Thu May 02, 2013 1:12 am #174761
Matt wrote:
Chas wrote:You get a better germination rate when you stratify the seeds.
I don't believe this to be true. What is your source? In nature they aren't stratified because the seed set happens in late spring or early summer. I have never stratified and always get nearly 100% germination rate with fresh seed. I don't know how stratification could make it any better than 100% :)
My source is me. Like you said nearly. Have you ever been o the sites? They can hold the stalks until winter. It is usually on the ground in fall. In NC flytraps go through a rather harsh winter (for them), so they come out later because it takes longer to fully warm up. What I've noticed is the stalks are still growing in June. Then it takes a while for the seed to form and it eventually falls on the ground in fall. When I stratify fresh seeds I always get 100% even with fresh seeds if I don't it's still usually 100% but not always. Also what Sam is trying to do is not have any conflicting facts. Same way you would tell someone to use peat because it's easier to use than NZLFSM sue to the evaporation period.

Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By sbrooks
Posts:  748
Joined:  Tue May 22, 2012 3:33 pm
-  Thu May 02, 2013 3:04 pm #174832
But stratifying isn't easier. And the facts don't conflict if both are true. They run paralell to each other. If you can get great results without stratifying, then why insist that you need that extra step?
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Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By Matt
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Posts:  22523
Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
-  Thu May 02, 2013 3:12 pm #174834
Chas wrote:My source is me.
What is your stratification method? You've done controlled experiments with fresh seeds where you stratified some and didn't stratify others and the ones that were stratified had a higher germination rate? How many times have you performed this experiment and with how many seeds and what were the percentages? Over the last few years, I've personally sown thousands of fresh seeds without stratification and they always have a germination rate near 100%. Additionally, I've seen hundreds of people post photos of germinating flytrap seed without stratification with extremely high germination rates. And most expert growers agree that stratification of Dionaea seed is unnecessary and unnatural.
Chas wrote:My source is me. Like you said nearly. Have you ever been o the sites? They can hold the stalks until winter.
I always leave flower stalks on my plants until they die completely if I let them set seed. Stalks will die sometime soon after the seed has been set, usually within a couple of weeks. As you say, the stalks may remain much longer, but they'll be dead by mid summer. And if left to their own devices, seeds always fall off the pods by mid summer at the latest, especially if outdoors (in the greenhouse where the wind and rain can't get to them, they'll hold them a bit longer). And our growing season here in Oregon starts much later than it does in the native habitat of flytraps in North Carolina. My guess is that by late June or July nearly all seeds set by wild flytraps are on the ground and germinating within 2 weeks. It would be the exception, not the norm, for a Dionaea seed in the wild to undergo a cold stratification period.

Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By sbrooks
Posts:  748
Joined:  Tue May 22, 2012 3:33 pm
-  Thu May 02, 2013 3:17 pm #174837
And I don't see how large flytraps are considered boring. I would say any of the varieties that are one solid color would be the most boring. There is no highlight on them to stand out. There's not a collector here who wouldn't drool over the idea of a flytrap with 5 or 6 inch traps. Many of the smaller varieties are cool, but you almost need a magnifying glass to appreciate them! And they can't catch wasps. :twisted: To me, this hobby is turning into a Pokemon thing; you want to collect them all. I see some of the ones on some European sites, and I am just astonished. I have most of the popular large varieties, minus Pinnacle and Envy Giant ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dionaea-Envy-Gi ... 20d1f1a4cb ;) ). Matt, I know the demand for your traps is far exceeding the supply. The fact that you still get contamination with TC is reason enough for me to not attempt it. I guess I'm just not sure what you're basing your assumption that the U.S. only wants big traps; when the uber-cool Euro-traps are available to us, they will sell for ridiculous amounts, I'm sure, and I will buy some. By the way, I just purchased a Mirror, and some baby U.K. Sawtooths and Big Mouths from you. Wanted to get 'em while the gettin's good!

Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By sbrooks
Posts:  748
Joined:  Tue May 22, 2012 3:33 pm
-  Thu May 02, 2013 3:20 pm #174838
And Chas, I'm assuming that you either are Sam, or you know Sam. Again, no offense intended to either. And I'm certain that both Sam and you are far more knowledgeable in CPs than I. If you do know Sam, maybe you could suggest to him that he include a picture of Pinnacle's potential, that is, a full-grown one, in his listing, and it would greatly add to his cause (as well as the price) :)

Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By plantman1001
Posts:  445
Joined:  Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:55 am
-  Thu May 02, 2013 3:54 pm #174840
Chas wrote:
You get a better germination rate when you stratify the seeds.

Matt wrote
I don't believe this to be true. What is your source? In nature they aren't stratified because the seed set happens in late spring or early summer. I have never stratified and always get nearly 100% germination rate with fresh seed. I don't know how stratification could make it any better than 100% :)
I second that! I never stratify my seeds and I too get near 100% germination.




sbrooks wrote:And Chas, I'm assuming that you either are Sam, or you know Sam.
sbrooks wrote: That's what I think too......
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Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By Matt
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Posts:  22523
Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
-  Thu May 02, 2013 4:01 pm #174841
sbrooks wrote:I would say any of the varieties that are one solid color would be the most boring.
I agree 100%. I never even attempted to obtain a 'Justina Davis' for that reason, but I was given one eventually. And some people find them exceptionally beautiful and I can see the beauty myself. They're just not my taste in flytraps.
sbrooks wrote:There's not a collector here who wouldn't drool over the idea of a flytrap with 5 or 6 inch traps.
No doubt! But the problem is that even the "giant" flytraps only get traps around 2 inches in size. Compare that to an average flytrap with good genetics that can get 1.5 inch or 1.75 inch traps and there isn't all that much (1/4 inch?) to be excited about, in my opinion. Again, that's just my opinion.
sbrooks wrote:Many of the smaller varieties are cool, but you almost need a magnifying glass to appreciate them! And they can't catch wasps.
:lol: Amen to that!
sbrooks wrote:I guess I'm just not sure what you're basing your assumption that the U.S. only wants big traps;
Based on the insane demand for any giant flytrap, new or well distributed. Look at the price that "Envy Giant" flytrap sold for on eBay even though there is no concrete evidence that it can get all that large. Though the seller makes claims that it can get 2" traps, there is no photo evidence of this fact.

And also based on the high market saturation point for giants. B52 has been available for many, many years and in fairly large quantities too, yet when one is listed on eBay, it routinely sells for $40 or more and they sell almost immediately when put in stock at any store. The market saturation point for the unusual, freaky flytraps is much lower.
sbrooks wrote:And Chas, I'm assuming that you either are Sam, or you know Sam. Again, no offense intended to either.
Ditto. No offense intended.

Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By weaver
Posts:  129
Joined:  Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:41 pm
-  Thu May 02, 2013 4:24 pm #174845
Matt wrote:
sbrooks wrote:There's not a collector here who wouldn't drool over the idea of a flytrap with 5 or 6 inch traps.
No doubt! But the problem is that even the "giant" flytraps only get traps around 2 inches in size. Compare that to an average flytrap with good genetics that can get 1.5 inch or 1.75 inch traps and there isn't all that much (1/4 inch?) to be excited about, in my opinion. Again, that's just my opinion.
sbrooks wrote:Many of the smaller varieties are cool, but you almost need a magnifying glass to appreciate them! And they can't catch wasps.
:lol: Amen to that!
I would say it is pretty subjective and as the old adage goes "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". When I first started this hobby I was all about getting flytraps with HUGE traps. I still like them, but I have progressed more into the "freaks" of the flytrap world like trichterfalle, wacky traps, etc. (which seem under appreciated to me by most growers) But in the end I love all my flytraps! :lol:
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Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By sbrooks
Posts:  748
Joined:  Tue May 22, 2012 3:33 pm
-  Thu May 02, 2013 4:28 pm #174846
Great points, Matt. Though I would say that the B52s that sell for a lot on EBay usually have multiple crowns. People on Ebay are often unaware that they can be obtained much cheaper from time to time on various EStores. You have had Long Red Fingers in stock for a long time, and yet someone just paid over $40 for one on Ebay about a week ago; Sam recently sold a Big Mouth (I don't recall it having more than one crown) for over $40. For some people, I think bidding on Ebay is just a game, and they like to win. I purchased a lot of B52s last year on EBay that were maybe 2 -3 years old, for $7-$9 each; this year, they are blowing up! The "new' giants that are made available go for a lot because people think they are going to be exclusive in their ownership, and they see big profit in TC potential, as you have mentioned with the price people pay when B52 or DC XL is released. From what I remember, they bid pretty high for Dracula and Mirror on Ebay. No, not $400, but the demand is still there for the exclusive unique cultivar. By the way, is that Purple Ambush I hear growing in the background?
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Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By sbrooks
Posts:  748
Joined:  Tue May 22, 2012 3:33 pm
-  Thu May 02, 2013 4:36 pm #174848
Weaver, I've only seen pictures of the ones that you mentioned; can't say that I'm impressed with either personally, trichterfalle and crossteeeth remind me of cupped traps; by far, the worst cultivar, IMO. At least the cupped traps I own don't grow or catch anything; they just split into smaller traps that don't grow or catch anything. This is one of the coolest web pages I've ever seen for dionaea photos (from Europe, of course): http://www.carnivoria.eu/photogallery/dionaea.html

Re: Pinnacle on Ebay

By weaver
Posts:  129
Joined:  Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:41 pm
-  Thu May 02, 2013 4:49 pm #174850
sbrooks wrote:Weaver, I've only seen pictures of the ones that you mentioned; can't say that I'm impressed with either personally, trichterfalle and crossteeeth remind me of cupped traps; by far, the worst cultivar, IMO. At least the cupped traps I own don't grow or catch anything; they just split into smaller traps that don't grow or catch anything. This is one of the coolest web pages I've ever seen for dionaea photos (from Europe, of course): http://www.carnivoria.eu/photogallery/dionaea.html
That was my point though. All growers have differing opinions and different cultivars attract different people. I used to not even think of obtaining a trichterfalle or cross teeth (long red fingers is better IMO), but I randomly decided to purchase them and they really surprised me! Since then I have been looking into different avenues of the cultivar world. But they might not be attractive to you ever (or maybe they will later on). And actually a few of my seed grown flytraps are some of my favorite flytraps! That is part of the reason I like this hobby, that is subjective in nature. It all boils down to your personal taste and feelings, which obviously differs from person to person! :)

And thanks for posting that link! I know what I'll be looking at for awhile ;)
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