Media Experiment I

Re: Media Experiment I#132142

By Steve_D -  Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:10 pm
Location:  New Mexico US
Posts:  3913
Joined:  Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:06 pm

- Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:10 pm #132142

Naja002 wrote:Well, it dawned on me when I was collecting the needles that pine branches, pine bark, and pine cones all wind up on and in the ground, so why not include those too?

I thought the same thing, which is why I've been trying evergreen bark ("orchid bark") in some of my mixes, so far with no discernible negative effects. Next I plan to try a sphagnum-free mix of sand, evergreen needles and evergreen bark pieces. Like everyone else, I'm very curious about this and about alternatives to sphagnum peat moss.

Anyway, great going, Naja. You're going to have a very interesting growing season with your new planter bog and media experiments.

Re: Media Experiment I#132187

By Naja002 -  Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:50 am
Posts:  246
Joined:  Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:57 pm

- Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:50 am #132187

Steve_D wrote:
Naja002 wrote:Well, it dawned on me when I was collecting the needles that pine branches, pine bark, and pine cones all wind up on and in the ground, so why not include those too?
I thought the same thing, which is why I've been trying evergreen bark ("orchid bark") in some of my mixes, so far with no discernible negative effects. Next I plan to try a sphagnum-free mix of sand, evergreen needles and evergreen bark pieces. Like everyone else, I'm very curious about this and about alternatives to sphagnum peat moss.

Anyway, great going, Naja. You're going to have a very interesting growing season with your new planter bog and media experiments.

Sounds good, and interesting! Personally, I think there is a future here for the coir....and long as it's washed well and mixed right...I would say it will be around for a while.

Seems as though you have tried a lot of different medias. Have you ever given any thought to documenting online the outcome, general outcomes, or at least your opinion on the different trials? Would give others reason to steer clear or even duplicate those efforts. I have going on what I have going on now, and no too sure that I want to take on any more at the moment, but my shortage is simply ideas.

Well, here's some info that we all may find interesting...at least it will start an initial benchmark. I knew it was suppose to be rainy all night last night, all day today and into tonight....soooo, I emptied the self-watering pot reservoirs in order to collect the drain water from each of the pots!

I got out some cups, Ph meter, TDS meter, etc...and went and collected the water samples:

Before getting started I calibrated the Ph probe to 4.00 and 7.00:

Code: Select all

    1) Peat/Sand/Perlite/Coffee Grounds :: 45/22/22/11    pH: 5.31    TDS: 43  ppm
    2) Peat/Sand/Perlite                :: 50/25/25           5.25         41  ppm

    3) Eco Earth/Sand                   :: 67/33              5.64         53  ppm
    4) Eco Earth/Sand/Coffee Grounds    :: 56/33/11           5.58         143 ppm

    5) Peat/Sand                        :: 50/50              5.51         16  ppm
    6) Peat/Sand/Coffee Grounds         :: 39/50/11           4.83         148 ppm

    7) Procoir/Sand                     :: 67/33              6.18         24  ppm
    8) Procoir/Sand/Coffee Grounds      :: 56/33/11           5.45         81  ppm

    9) Procoir/Sand/Pine Needles et al  :: 39/28/33           5.37         59  ppm

The most disheartening thing about the results is that it certainly appears that I forgot to add the coffee to pot #1.

The ppm are too low and the pH and ppm matches pot #2. Not sure how I would have accomplished that on the very first pot...unless I simply grabbed the wrong plant label. Thoughts on repotting that one real quick?

Seems that there should not be too much impact considering the time of year and it is still winter here.

Last edited by Naja002 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

Planter Bog

Coir Soak Station

Super Soak Station

Media Experiment I
Media Experiment II

The Planter

Shade Hut

XL Tall Pots

Re: Media Experiment I#132194

By Steve_D -  Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:02 am
Location:  New Mexico US
Posts:  3913
Joined:  Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:06 pm

- Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:02 am #132194

Naja002 wrote:Thoughts on repotting that one real quick?

That's what I would do. The plants won't suffer much setback because they are not yet established anyway.

Steve_D liked this

Re: Media Experiment I#132242

By Naja002 -  Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:30 pm
Posts:  246
Joined:  Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:57 pm

- Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:30 pm #132242

Steve_D wrote:
Naja002 wrote:Thoughts on repotting that one real quick?
That's what I would do. The plants won't suffer much setback because they are not yet established anyway.

Done! Pot #1 is replanted and it's soaking up water now, and I will put it back in it's spot in a little while.

Planter Bog

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Re: Media Experiment I#132267

By 95slvrZ28 -  Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:33 am
Posts:  1825
Joined:  Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:00 pm

- Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:33 am #132267

Code: Select all

        Potting Components          ::   Ratios
1) Peat/Sand/Perlite/Coffee Grounds :: 45/22/22/11    pH: 5.31    TDS: 43  ppm
2) Peat/Sand/Perlite                :: 50/25/25       pH: 5.25    TDS: 41  ppm
3) Eco Earth/Sand                   :: 67/33          pH: 5.64    TDS: 53  ppm
4) Eco Earth/Sand/Coffee Grounds    :: 56/33/11       pH: 5.58    TDS: 143 ppm
5) Peat/Sand                        :: 50/50          pH: 5.51    TDS: 16  ppm
6) Peat/Sand/Coffee Grounds         :: 39/50/11       pH: 4.83    TDS: 148 ppm
7) Procoir/Sand                     :: 67/33          pH: 6.18    TDS: 24  ppm
8) Procoir/Sand/Coffee Grounds      :: 56/33/11       pH: 5.45    TDS: 81  ppm
9) Procoir/Sand/Pine Needles et al  :: 39/28/33       pH: 5.37    TDS: 59  ppm

Formatted it up for you. You can use code brackets when you post:

Code: Select all

 [code] your text here

[/code]
Then all characters become the same width. Then it's really easy to do some decent looking text formatting because you just open up notepad (or your favorite text editor like Gedit etc. if you run a non-windows computer), put your results in there and make it look nice, and paste it into the code brackets. Or I can do it for you a few posts later and you can ninja edit them in

95slvrZ28, 95slvrZ28 liked this

Re: Media Experiment I#132271

By Steve_D -  Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:14 am
Location:  New Mexico US
Posts:  3913
Joined:  Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:06 pm

- Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:14 am #132271

95slvrZ28 wrote:or your favorite text editor like Gedit etc. if you run a non-windows computer

Gedit it is, in my Gnome desktop environment on my Ubuntu Linux computer!

Nice to see a plug for open-source computing. The formatting looks great and the results are interesting. It looks like the coffee grounds are having an acidifying effect, if I read the results right. I wonder how long that will last. I also like the apparent acidifying effect of the pine needles in the coir medium of pot 9. Interesting--

I'll post the results of my media trials as I develop opinions about them, but I'm not nearly as (cough)obsessive-compulsive(cough) about documenting them (cough) so my thoughts might be a little subjective. Just kidding. I guess I feel a little too busy or too scattered to be organized enough.

Re: Media Experiment I#132336

By Naja002 -  Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts:  246
Joined:  Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:57 pm

- Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:40 pm #132336

95slvrZ28 wrote: Formatted it up for you. You can use code brackets when you post:
Code: Select all
 [code] your text here 
[/code]
Then all characters become the same width. Then it's really easy to do some decent looking text formatting because you just open up notepad (or your favorite text editor like Gedit etc. if you run a non-windows computer), put your results in there and make it look nice, and paste it into the code brackets. Or I can do it for you a few posts later and you can ninja edit them in

Ninja edited! Many Thanx, Blake! I've rarely, if ever, used the code tags, so I don't even think about them.

Is there anyway to "bold" and/or "underline" within the code tags?

Planter Bog

Coir Soak Station

Super Soak Station

Media Experiment I
Media Experiment II

The Planter

Shade Hut

XL Tall Pots

Re: Media Experiment I#132340

By Naja002 -  Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:31 am
Posts:  246
Joined:  Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:57 pm

- Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:31 am #132340

Steve_D wrote:
95slvrZ28 wrote:or your favorite text editor like Gedit etc. if you run a non-windows computer
Gedit it is, in my Gnome desktop environment on my Ubuntu Linux computer! Nice to see a plug for open-source computing. The formatting looks great and the results are interesting. It looks like the coffee grounds are having an acidifying effect, if I read the results right. I wonder how long that will last. I also like the apparent acidifying effect of the pine needles in the coir medium of pot 9. Interesting--

I'll post the results of my media trials as I develop opinions about them, but I'm not nearly as (cough)obsessive-compulsive(cough) about documenting them (cough) so my thoughts might be a little subjective. Just kidding. I guess I feel a little too busy or too scattered to be organized enough.

Obsessive-compulsive? Who me? What?

Actually, since this is just a hobby...I can kind of approach it however I want, so I can be a bit more involved in ways that interest me. I can limit the directions that I go, and limit the distance that I head down those paths. Personally, whether the outcome is "positive" or "negative", I think that there is something to be gleaned here. However, since I don't have the resources of NASA, we'll all just have to settle for what I can accomplish on my own.

And, then what we can garner from that as a community. Fortunately for me, I'm not being yanked in many different directions as you and Matt both are. I can wear 1 or 2 or even 3 different hats and call it a day.

I am curious too about the long-term effects of the coffee grounds. On the one hand, I would think that it may wash out pretty quickly, but on the other hand there may be some long-term benefit(s) as it biodegrades. May be beneficial or detrimental to some type of fungus or bacteria<--which may be beneficial or detrimental to the individual "eco-systems".

The pH drop of the Procoir + Pine was not a really big surprise to me after the initial jar experiment. (I still have it, re-vacuum-sealed and sitting....I'll check it again in probably another week.) Maybe a 25/25/50 Procoir/sand/pine mix might help drop the pH even more, yet retain some water retention and drainage. I have no idea what the water retention v. drainage is for the pine as it biodegrades.

For the record, the plants' foliage are degrading evenly across the board from 1) exposure to slightly below freezing temps, 2) 1 good frost and 3) sunburn. I think that is to be expected considering it is still winter here, and after sitting 8-9 days in a box and then in the fridge. It is even across the board (all pots, all clones), so I think it's obvious that it is from outside of the pots, not inside.

Planter Bog

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Media Experiment I
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Re: Media Experiment I#132352

By 95slvrZ28 -  Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:04 am
Posts:  1825
Joined:  Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:00 pm

- Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:04 am #132352

Naja002 wrote:Is there anyway to "bold" and/or "underline" within the code tags?

Unfortunately no

Anything within code tags get output as a literal and is not interpreted as BB code.

Re: Media Experiment I#132355

By Naja002 -  Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:19 am
Posts:  246
Joined:  Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:57 pm

- Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:19 am #132355

95slvrZ28 wrote:
Naja002 wrote:Is there anyway to "bold" and/or "underline" within the code tags?
Unfortunately no Anything within code tags get output as a literal and is not interpreted as BB code.

Well, Many Thanx again for the effort and pointing that out! I may very well use it to create some type of summary table for all of the media cleaning info in the soak station thread.

Planter Bog

Coir Soak Station

Super Soak Station

Media Experiment I
Media Experiment II

The Planter

Shade Hut

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Re: Media Experiment I#134569

By Naja002 -  Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts:  246
Joined:  Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:57 pm

- Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:41 pm #134569

Just a quick update.

It's been 21 days...3 weeks, and I am finally starting to see some noticeable recovery on some of the plants. The sun-scorching, frost, freezing, etc has been really hard on them. It seems as though spring has sprung here, so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

One thing I have noticed is that the sand-top-dressing of the pots with coffee dry out noticeably faster than the other pots. The sand quantity was maintained in those mixes and the coffee amount replaced the peat/coir.

There is also a noticeable difference in weight from pot to pot; mix to mix. I don't happen to have a scale that will handle those weights, so I cannot do a weight comparison.

I am going to see about getting to another pH and TDS check of the medias soon...

Planter Bog

Coir Soak Station

Super Soak Station

Media Experiment I
Media Experiment II

The Planter

Shade Hut

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Re: Media Experiment I#134633

By Tony C -  Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:24 am
Posts:  352
Joined:  Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:23 am

- Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:24 am #134633

How are you controlling for the shared water reservoir? From what I can see there is nothing that prevents salts and other compounds from leaching out of the experimental mixes and being absorbed by the pots of traditional media.

Re: Media Experiment I#134659

By salty -  Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:48 pm
Posts:  198
Joined:  Mon May 17, 2010 11:30 am

- Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:48 pm #134659

He mentions they are in self watering pots, so they would each have their own resevoir.

Re: Media Experiment I#134708

By Naja002 -  Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:02 pm
Posts:  246
Joined:  Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:57 pm

- Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:02 pm #134708

Tony C wrote:How are you controlling for the shared water reservoir? From what I can see there is nothing that prevents salts and other compounds from leaching out of the experimental mixes and being absorbed by the pots of traditional media.

Good observation. The short answer is: I'm not/can't. But, it's not quite as it seems. Since setting this Planter Bog up in Aug. '11....100% of the water has come from the sky (rain), except for a few gals of RODI via pump sprayer top-watering. The RODI is beyond negligible and was top-watered anyway. Basically, I guesstimate the reservoir to be ~160 gal. It's really hard to get an accurate assessment, because it's not just a rectangular box inside. The Planter Area currently has roughly 40 gals of accumulated rain water, and I have ~100 gals stored in containers. Plus I've used a bunch for media preparation. My point is that very near 100% of the watering, so far, is by rain aka top-watering....so, your question hasn't been an issue...yet!

I suspect that the abundance of rainwater will continue for another month or 2, and then there may be some dry spells during the summer that will require watering from the reservoir. At that point, I think it will really be a non-issue. Taking just the reservoir at roughly 160 gals....the dilution rate is more than adequate to overcome the "shared-salts" issue. The solution to pollution is dilution.

The reservoir (without mosquito dunks) seems to stay at ~11-14 ppm, so it's pretty clean water to start with...and that is drain water from the pots themselves. Also, I think that most of the salts are the same anyway, yes, the coffee being an exception to that.

Except for the coffee, which is used coffee grounds, all of the media was cleaned in my soak stations, so the salt run-off is minimal.

With the minimal bottom-watering (from the reservoir) and the influx of clean rainwater, plus draining excess water out the back....I think that the low ppm maintained in the reservoir says that "shared salts" really should not be an issue/ concern. Great question though!

How are those timers working out for you?

salty wrote:He mentions they are in self watering pots, so they would each have their own resevoir.

They are self-watering pots, but he's referring to the bottom-watering from the system reservoir. However, the self-watering pots seem to help keep the bottom-watering to a minimum....basically, non-existent!

Planter Bog

Coir Soak Station

Super Soak Station

Media Experiment I
Media Experiment II

The Planter

Shade Hut

XL Tall Pots