Highland cooling system

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Benurmanii

 
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Re: Highland cooling system

by Benurmanii » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:16 pm

tannerm wrote:Would it be possible to grow Villosa in highland conditions?


The larger the plant becomes, the more sensitive it becomes. You can grow lots of highlanders under warmer conditions than they should be, but as they age, the sudden collapse of your plant becomes more likely unless it is given proper conditions.

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tannerm

 
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Re: Highland cooling system

by tannerm » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:17 pm

Benurmanii wrote:
tannerm wrote:Would it be possible to grow Villosa in highland conditions?


The larger the plant becomes, the more sensitive it becomes. You can grow lots of highlanders under warmer conditions than they should be, but as they age, the sudden collapse of your plant becomes more likely unless it is given proper conditions.

So ultra Highlanders can't handle above 70?

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Re: Highland cooling system

by Leathal_Traps » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:19 pm

tannerm wrote:
Benurmanii wrote:
tannerm wrote:Would it be possible to grow Villosa in highland conditions?


The larger the plant becomes, the more sensitive it becomes. You can grow lots of highlanders under warmer conditions than they should be, but as they age, the sudden collapse of your plant becomes more likely unless it is given proper conditions.

So ultra Highlanders can't handle above 70?


They can if they get a proper temp drop

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Re: Highland cooling system

by tannerm » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:22 pm

Leathal_Traps wrote:
tannerm wrote:
Benurmanii wrote:[quote="tannerm"]Would it be possible to grow Villosa in highland conditions?


The larger the plant becomes, the more sensitive it becomes. You can grow lots of highlanders under warmer conditions than they should be, but as they age, the sudden collapse of your plant becomes more likely unless it is given proper conditions.

So ultra Highlanders can't handle above 70?


They can if they get a proper temp drop[/quote]
Would mid 70s to 80 (tops) during the day and mid to low 50s at night be good enough?

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Benurmanii

 
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Re: Highland cooling system

by Benurmanii » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:22 pm

tannerm wrote:
Benurmanii wrote:
tannerm wrote:Would it be possible to grow Villosa in highland conditions?


The larger the plant becomes, the more sensitive it becomes. You can grow lots of highlanders under warmer conditions than they should be, but as they age, the sudden collapse of your plant becomes more likely unless it is given proper conditions.

So ultra Highlanders can't handle above 70?


I believe it is more about cooling the temps into the high to mid 40s. I'm sure Villosa could handle temps into the high 70s, but you would want a drop it by 30 degrees (I know some people will come at me saying that they are growing villosa in regular highland temps, but you should ask them what size their plant is ;) ). I have read multiple stories of people trying to grow hamata (even rajah) in lowland conditions. They do fine while they are small, but they get to a point where they progressively weaken; their leaves and pitchers get smaller, very deformed, etc.

Basically, the theory is that Nepenthes have adapted their metabolisms to their natural climate. So with big plants, which are processing more nutrients, if the climate does not match the pace of their metabolism, they can't process their nutrients and essentially starve to death.

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Re: Highland cooling system

by iamjacksplants » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:04 am

tannerm wrote:So ultra Highlanders can't handle above 70?


Benurmanii wrote:I believe it is more about cooling the temps into the high to mid 40s. I'm sure Villosa could handle temps into the high 70s, but you would want a drop it by 30 degrees (I know some people will come at me saying that they are growing villosa in regular highland temps, but you should ask them what size their plant is ;) ). I have read multiple stories of people trying to grow hamata (even rajah) in lowland conditions. They do fine while they are small, but they get to a point where they progressively weaken; their leaves and pitchers get smaller, very deformed, etc.

Basically, the theory is that Nepenthes have adapted their metabolisms to their natural climate. So with big plants, which are processing more nutrients, if the climate does not match the pace of their metabolism, they can't process their nutrients and essentially starve to death.


Correct. The idea being that the temperature drop at night induces a pause in the plants metabolism, without which, as you said the plant collapses due to exhaustion.

Happy growing,
-@.
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tannerm

 
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Re: Highland cooling system

by tannerm » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:06 am

iamjacksplants wrote:
tannerm wrote:So ultra Highlanders can't handle above 70?


Benurmanii wrote:I believe it is more about cooling the temps into the high to mid 40s. I'm sure Villosa could handle temps into the high 70s, but you would want a drop it by 30 degrees (I know some people will come at me saying that they are growing villosa in regular highland temps, but you should ask them what size their plant is ;) ). I have read multiple stories of people trying to grow hamata (even rajah) in lowland conditions. They do fine while they are small, but they get to a point where they progressively weaken; their leaves and pitchers get smaller, very deformed, etc.

Basically, the theory is that Nepenthes have adapted their metabolisms to their natural climate. So with big plants, which are processing more nutrients, if the climate does not match the pace of their metabolism, they can't process their nutrients and essentially starve to death.


Correct. The idea being that the temperature drop at night induces a pause in the plants metabolism, without which, as you said the plant collapses due to exhaustion.

Happy growing,
-@.


Okay, so can non ultra Highlanders handle a drop down to 40s at night?

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Re: Highland cooling system

by iamjacksplants » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:31 am

I don't know. Never tried it. I would suspect that highlanders would be more tolerant of lower night time temps than intermediate plants and intermediates more tolerant than lowland species obviously. Again, this is just speculation as I have no experience with these temperatures with any plant, ultra highland or otherwise.
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Re: Highland cooling system

by iamjacksplants » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:38 am

_20160921_013332.JPG
The lid
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_20160921_013628.JPG
The refrigerator position. I just took everything apart to fill it with water bottles so I thought I would snap a pic.
_20160921_013628.JPG (1.12 MiB) Viewed 953 times
"If you don't ask the question, you don't have to listen to the answer you didn't want to hear..."
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Re: Highland cooling system

by tannerm » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:42 pm

iamjacksplants wrote:
_20160921_013332.JPG


_20160921_013628.JPG

I'm liking that! How much energy does it take up and do you run it 24/7?


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Re: Highland cooling system

by iamjacksplants » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:56 pm

Yes, the whole system runs 24/7. The refrigerator is plugged in at all times to keep a constant "reserve" of cold air. It draws 1.1 amps so approximately 132 watts at peak. There are three 48 watt and three 24 watt lights on a 16 hour photo period. So approximately 216 watts there. There's a 120 volt household box fan I use to vent the heat from the lights. I have no idea how many watts there. That's plugged into the same power strip as the lights, in addition to a sonic fogger. When the thermostat kicks on there are a couple computer fans to circulate the cold air from the fridge, one 12 volt and 1 5 volt for now. I'll be adding a few more soon. So... Super rough estimate would be around 500 watts with everything running.

So far conditions have been no more than 82 degrees daytime and 68 at night. Humidity between 70 and 80% daytime and occasionally as low as 50% at night. According to the packaging for the lights I'm totaling 7575 lumens. Four of the lights are brand new and two are a year old so I would imagine it's probably closer to 5000 lumens.

Happy growing,
-@.
"If you don't ask the question, you don't have to listen to the answer you didn't want to hear..."
-Charles Steven Coleman Jr. RIP

"If you had one more eye you'd be a Cyclops, which explains missing the premise."
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tannerm

 
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Re: Highland cooling system

by tannerm » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:23 am

iamjacksplants wrote:Yes, the whole system runs 24/7. The refrigerator is plugged in at all times to keep a constant "reserve" of cold air. It draws 1.1 amps so approximately 132 watts at peak. There are three 48 watt and three 24 watt lights on a 16 hour photo period. So approximately 216 watts there. There's a 120 volt household box fan I use to vent the heat from the lights. I have no idea how many watts there. That's plugged into the same power strip as the lights, in addition to a sonic fogger. When the thermostat kicks on there are a couple computer fans to circulate the cold air from the fridge, one 12 volt and 1 5 volt for now. I'll be adding a few more soon. So... Super rough estimate would be around 500 watts with everything running.

So far conditions have been no more than 82 degrees daytime and 68 at night. Humidity between 70 and 80% daytime and occasionally as low as 50% at night. According to the packaging for the lights I'm totaling 7575 lumens. Four of the lights are brand new and two are a year old so I would imagine it's probably closer to 5000 lumens.

Happy growing,
-@.


Nice setup! I'm surprised it's not cooler.

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iamjacksplants

 
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Re: Highland cooling system

by iamjacksplants » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:45 am

Thank you. I'm a little surprised too. It is however achieving drops to 5 degrees below ambient temperature. A vast improvement over my last system which only ever got one or two degrees below the ambient temperature of the room the enclosure was in. I still have a few tricks left in the bag though. I think I can get it down a few more degrees.

Happy growing,
-@.
"If you don't ask the question, you don't have to listen to the answer you didn't want to hear..."
-Charles Steven Coleman Jr. RIP

"If you had one more eye you'd be a Cyclops, which explains missing the premise."
-Aesop Rock

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Re: Highland cooling system

by iamjacksplants » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:09 pm

Finally getting much closer to my target temperature drop. From 73 to 63 yesterday and the day before...

DSC_0702.JPG
September 23rd
DSC_0702.JPG (2.01 MiB) Viewed 879 times


And from 77 to 59 today!

_20160925_140134.JPG
Even better today, September 25th
_20160925_140134.JPG (1.48 MiB) Viewed 879 times


I believe I can say my idea worked. I still have some fans to add and a couple other things to iron out but I believe we have a winner. I was hoping to get down to 55, and still might with the additional fans however I consider 59 to be good enough to say it works. That's 11 degrees below ambient of the room it's in and a drop of 18 degrees in the enclosure.

Happy growing,
-@.
"If you don't ask the question, you don't have to listen to the answer you didn't want to hear..."
-Charles Steven Coleman Jr. RIP

"If you had one more eye you'd be a Cyclops, which explains missing the premise."
-Aesop Rock

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tannerm

 
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Re: Highland cooling system

by tannerm » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:11 pm

iamjacksplants wrote:Finally getting much closer to my target temperature drop. From 73 to 63 yesterday and the day before...

DSC_0702.JPG


And from 77 to 59 today!

_20160925_140134.JPG


I believe I can say my idea worked. I still have some fans to add and a couple other things to iron out but I believe we have a winner. I was hoping to get down to 55, and still might with the additional fans however I consider 59 to be good enough to say it works. That's 11 degrees below ambient of the room it's in and a drop of 18 degrees in the enclosure.

Happy growing,
-@.


Nice. Shouldn't your humidity be higher though - that's your night time temp, right?

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