Highland Nepenthes Light Requirements?

Discussions about fluorescent, LED and other types of grow lighting for Venus Flytraps and other plants
User Avatar
Frothy_Milk

 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:39 pm
Thanked: 19 times in 18 posts

Highland Nepenthes Light Requirements?

by Frothy_Milk » Tue May 16, 2017 2:22 am

I was wondering what the light requirements are to grow Nepenthes in a small indoor greenhouse? I can really help further my search for some good small and compact lights (Under $50) if I knew the lumens, kelvin, and watt requirement that is safe to have sitting about a foot away from Highland Nepenthes. I am going to be growing the beginner hybrids and species of Nepenthes like Ventricosa, Miranda, Sanguinea, and Ventrata at first, so that can maybe help narrow down light options. Any recommendations, and information is greatly appreciated!
Last edited by Frothy_Milk on Tue May 16, 2017 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- FROTHY MILK

User Avatar
tannerm

 
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:24 am
Thanked: 134 times in 110 posts

Re: Highland Nepenthes Light Requirements?

by tannerm » Tue May 16, 2017 2:39 am

I use a mars hydro 300w, and that's what I recommend. It's a tad bit more, but it'll last longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User Avatar
Frothy_Milk

 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:39 pm
Thanked: 19 times in 18 posts

Re: Highland Nepenthes Light Requirements?

by Frothy_Milk » Tue May 16, 2017 2:50 am

tannerm wrote:I use a mars hydro 300w, and that's what I recommend. It's a tad bit more, but it'll last longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does the purple light do anything different than a white light?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- FROTHY MILK

User Avatar
tannerm

 
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:24 am
Thanked: 134 times in 110 posts

Re: Highland Nepenthes Light Requirements?

by tannerm » Tue May 16, 2017 2:51 am

It's not purple, it's red and blue and yes... it provides the plants more of what they need.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User Avatar
nimbulan

 
Posts: 2046
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:03 pm
Location: Oregon
Thanked: 482 times in 421 posts

Re: Highland Nepenthes Light Requirements?

by nimbulan » Tue May 16, 2017 5:45 am

The red/blue LED lights can help the plants color up more, but that's about it. They're designed based on the (false and widely circulated) idea that plants only use red and blue light (and tiny bits of the rest) so they're supposed to be more efficient by eliminating wasted light wavelengths. In reality, plants can and will utilize significant amounts of all wavelengths of visible light (and probably a bit of UV too.) It would be quite strange if plants couldn't use half the energy emitted by the sun.

In any case, the light requirements of Nepenthes species varies quite a bit so it really depends on what you're growing. For instance N. izumiae grows in very shady areas, while species like N. attenboroughii can pretty much handle full sun.

The following users would like to thank nimbulan for this post
Benurmanii, BrunoL

User Avatar
tannerm

 
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:24 am
Thanked: 134 times in 110 posts

Highland Nepenthes Light Requirements?

by tannerm » Thu May 18, 2017 4:20 am

nimbulan wrote:The red/blue LED lights can help the plants color up more, but that's about it. They're designed based on the (false and widely circulated) idea that plants only use red and blue light (and tiny bits of the rest) so they're supposed to be more efficient by eliminating wasted light wavelengths. In reality, plants can and will utilize significant amounts of all wavelengths of visible light (and probably a bit of UV too.) It would be quite strange if plants couldn't use half the energy emitted by the sun.

In any case, the light requirements of Nepenthes species varies quite a bit so it really depends on what you're growing. For instance N. izumiae grows in very shady areas, while species like N. attenboroughii can pretty much handle full sun.

No one said they can't use it. Plants respond best to red (bloom) and blue (foliage) growth LEDs & the good ones combine white LEDs as well. Show me the evidence to back up your insane claims that they're "based on the (false and widely circulated) idea [...]" - numerous scientific studies have been done.... also I will add that UV can be harmful to plants, especially sensitive highlanders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User Avatar
Benurmanii

 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:34 pm
Thanked: 410 times in 328 posts

Re: Highland Nepenthes Light Requirements?

by Benurmanii » Thu May 18, 2017 5:19 pm

UV light radiation increases in strength at higher altitudes, so I am not sure how highlanders would be more sensitive to UVs. Also, I have yet to see any evidence that blue light promotes foliage growth while red promotes blooming. In fact, my D. arenicola didn't start blooming until a period during which I only had 6500k bulbs to use, which are supposedly associated with vegetative growth.

User Avatar
Benurmanii

 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:34 pm
Thanked: 410 times in 328 posts

Re: Highland Nepenthes Light Requirements?

by Benurmanii » Thu May 18, 2017 5:22 pm

Attachments
2-6SalviaHEIDI.jpg
2-6SalviaHEIDI.jpg (45.33 KiB) Viewed 2327 times

User Avatar
nimbulan

 
Posts: 2046
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:03 pm
Location: Oregon
Thanked: 482 times in 421 posts

Re: Highland Nepenthes Light Requirements?

by nimbulan » Thu May 18, 2017 5:31 pm

tannerm wrote:No one said they can't use it. Plants respond best to red (bloom) and blue (foliage) growth LEDs & the good ones combine white LEDs as well. Show me the evidence to back up your insane claims that they're "based on the (false and widely circulated) idea [...]" - numerous scientific studies have been done.... also I will add that UV can be harmful to plants, especially sensitive highlanders.

Maybe I shouldn't say it's false, but most people misinterpret the commonly-available information so I will attempt to explain here. I should note that I'm not trying to say that red/blue LED lights are bad - they work just fine. I just don't want people to believe they HAVE to buy those to get the best plant growth or that they're inherently more efficient than white lights as the marketing frequently claims.

We're all familiar with the common chlorophyll absorption chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis#/media/File:Chlorophyll_ab_spectra-en.svg This chart is created by measuring the light absorption of pure chlorophyll extracted from plants in a laboratory but is widely believed to represent the light absorption capabilities of plant leaves. Not only does it leave out accessory pigments like anthocyanin (here's a graph with a common anthocyanin overlaid on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthocyanin#/media/File:Spectra_Chlorophyll_ab_oenin_(1).PNG,) but it doesn't take into account any part of the leaf structure of the plant. It's really only applicable to organisms like cyanobacteria and algae because of this.

This chart is one of the primary reasons for the design of these red/blue LED lights with the other being the "bloom" and "veg" spectra that you mentioned. These terms were coined by marijuana growers who want their plants to grow in a very specific way. The thing is, the only part of the plant that matters to them is the flower buds as the leaves do not contain any THC. The "veg" spectrum is very heavy on blue light which acts as a growth regulator in plants - low blue light causes etiolation, while high blue light causes very compact growth and extra branching (important so there are more growth points to produce flowers.) Once the plants begin to flower they switch to the "bloom" spectrum which is very heavy on red light, since red is more photosynthetically-efficient than blue so the plant has more energy to put into the flowers.

Now about why the chart is misunderstood and misleading: If you read the Wikipedia article about PAR (photosynthetically-active radiation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation you can see the absorption spectrum of an individual chloroplast (plant organ that performs photosynthesis) at the top just under the chlorophyll graph and further down the page the PAR conversion graph which measures how much photosynthesis is performed for a given wavelength of light (the energy-weighted line is the important one.) You can see that the efficiency of GREEN light is actually higher than blue. Even this chart isn't 100% accurate, as the efficiency of green light in comparison to the other colors increases with light intensity and actually beats out red when the chloroplasts are fully-saturated.

For why this is the case, this paper has in-depth information http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-3040.2000.00563.x/pdf but the tl;dr of it is that because individual chloroplasts absorb a low amount of green light, it can penetrate deeper in the leaf and reach more of those chloroplasts while red and blue are absorbed closer to the surface. Once the surface chloroplasts are saturated, the plant can only use the green light that penetrates deeper. So basically - the stronger the light, the more photosynthetically-efficient green wavelengths are compared to others.

About UV, while I do not have a source for this I've been told by someone who knows a lot more about photosynthesis than I do that plants that grow at high elevations commonly can utilize some UV radiation. There are no studies that have been done specifically on Nepenthes in this regard that I'm aware of and it's certainly not necessary to grow the plants. UV supplementation certainly can be helpful when starting seeds indoors for plants that will be moved outside in the future, to reduce the necessary acclimation period.

Benurmanii wrote:http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/green_light_is_it_important_for_plant_growth


Keep in mind with studies like these that light intensity will alter the efficacy of green light compared to the other wavelengths and that some plants will respond VERY poorly to single wavelength light sources like that, especially the overabundance or lack of blue light. This particular plant does seem to closely match the PAR yield curve in this particular experiment though.

The following users would like to thank nimbulan for this post
KategoricalKarnivore


Return to Artificial Lighting

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests