FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

[goldslinger]

I have a couple of questions. . .

Charcoal is used for a number of things in media, like to help with Phenolics and to absorb any remaining PGR'S so that it may develop roots, stop multiplying, etc.

If I put Kinetin in for an initiation media for flower stalks, leaves, etc., but ALSO use Charcoal to help with Phenolics, how much of the Kinetin is left effective to do the job of increasing the chances of a strike?

How does One see if there is any bleeding if the media is black?

Thanks,

Gary

[Matt]

I've been wondering the same thing about using charcoal in conjunction with PGRs Gary. From what I can tell, it does reduce the effectiveness of them, but I've only been using the charcoal a bit recently with PGRs. I've also noticed that it reduces the effects of PPM and you're more likely to see contamination when using AC with PPM.

As far as seeing bleeding, that's a real problem. You really can't see it. I'd say probably best not to use it on initialization media with sensitive tissue that you know will bleed badly or just plan on replating regardless of what you can see.

[goldslinger]

Matt,

Okay, that helps Me. For initiation, anyway, I'll simply replate after 4 or 5 Days after plating fresh explants, like I've been doing. It's not that much trouble.

I re-plate onto the same vessel, just in a different area of the media, like You mentioned once. The phenols aren't more than a little puff of smoke on the stalks, and just a black outline on the leaves. I never have had to re-plate more than once on the leaves, anyway.

It will be fun to experiment with the charcoal for other areas.

Gary

[nepaholic]

I re-plate onto the same vessel, just in a different area of the media, like You mentioned once. The phenols aren't more than a little puff of smoke on the stalks, and just a black outline on the leaves. I never have had to re-plate more than once on the leaves, anyway.

oh really, that can be done? I didn't know about that but it sounds quite clear when u think about it. I always transfered the explants to fresh media but this sounds more easy.

Thanks guys
jens

[Matt]

Yes, replating to another location in the media away from the phenols seems to work fine. I decided to try it when I got tired of wasting jars of media after 2 days of use. I too rarely have to replate more than once, especially if I'm not using low amounts of or no PGRs, which I always do now for Dionaea initialization.

[nepaholic]

Yeah matt that is right.
I will give it a try next time

[ahicks51]

Compensating for activated charcoal is tricky; it depends upon so many factors as to make anything other than guessing irresponsible. I seem to recall a few people simply doubling the concentration of PGRs, but don't quote me on that.

Activated charcoal is so potent at removing organic compounds that I can't see anything other than guessing.

Also note that if darkening is required (rather than the other qualities of activated charcoal, such as sequestration of organic compounds), graphite also works. Similarly, I've used "brilliant black #2" dye, which is next to impossible to get except from chemical supply companies. It forms a wonderful dark purple-blue color, close enough to black for my purposes.

[goldslinger]

Compensating for activated charcoal is tricky; it depends upon so many factors as to make anything other than guessing irresponsible. I seem to recall a few people simply doubling the concentration of PGRs, but don't quote me on that.

Activated charcoal is so potent at removing organic compounds that I can't see anything other than guessing.

Also note that if darkening is required (rather than the other qualities of activated charcoal, such as sequestration of organic compounds), graphite also works. Similarly, I've used "brilliant black #2" dye, which is next to impossible to get except from chemical supply companies. It forms a wonderful dark purple-blue color, close enough to black for my purposes.

That's good to know!

Thanks!

GAry

[Richardavion]

How-about 'Starting'-R-Thread: "Terra-Preta Flytraps"??? >(*U^)<

[zahier]

If I put Kinetin in for an initiation media for flower stalks, leaves, etc., but ALSO use Charcoal to help with Phenolics, how much of the Kinetin is left effective to do the job of increasing the chances of a strike?

It is possible that pre-soaking your explant in the given PGR might be a solution. I'm not to geared on the specifics, but you'll find published papers on Google books- http://books.google.co.za/books?id=MSfO ... ea&f=false with more info. Since you enjoy experimenting, thought you might find it interesting?

[goldslinger]

I don't think Anyone knows how much Kinetin is left, but I have learned it takes VERY LITTLE Kinetin, anyway. It is HOT stuff! Some use only 10ml initiation media in their jars to save on media; I don't use Charcoal for initiation Myself, but I use 25ml volume of initiation media, lay the flower stalk on top, then after a couple of Days, just tap the jar to slide the stalk off of it's own little black cloud of poisons. I do it again in another 2 Days and it's good after that. If the bleeding is heavy, I just replate it, but I have never had to do that yet, as the extra volume helps with that, and if You move the explant away from it a couple of times, it breaks the cycle of it poisoning itself, more tissue dying from that, and bleeding even more.

The larger volume of media also keeps the media soft and hydrated longer (I wrap the jars in cellophane, too) because I have learned that I need soft media to be effective for initiation. I don't drain off the excess liquid from the vessels unless there is so much that it covers seeds. If the media starts to get too hard, the explant seems to stall, and the callous shrivels and dies.

Correct Me if I'm wrong.

Gary