FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

Watching this thread, I'd like to acquire a Ceph myself if possible.

I have a bunch of Cephalotus going in the greenhouse right now but they're not quite ready for sale yet. I also have a TON coming out of TC so I'm hoping we can keep them in stock at FTS through most of 2021.

Matt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:36 pm I have a bunch of Cephalotus going in the greenhouse right now but they're not quite ready for sale yet. I also have a TON coming out of TC so I'm hoping we can keep them in stock at FTS through most of 2021.

I have a sole heli in TC. And some nep seeds. I have real trouble with sterility due to no fume hood, but how do you sterilize cephs?
Everytime I try that danged endocarp stays septic.

Thanks,
HC

hungry carnivores wrote:I have real trouble with sterility due to no fume hood

Yeah, laminar flow hoods make TC much, much easier. I worked in a 30-gallon aquarium laid on its side for many years, but am so very grateful to have a flow hood now.

hungry carnivores wrote:but how do you sterilize cephs? Everytime I try that danged endocarp stays septic.

Lots and lots of practice and hard work

It might help to turn off anything that could be circulating air. I haven't worked with plant TC but I've grown fungi and brewed beer. Most people do this sort of thing in the kitchen and most kitchens have vents and fans that blow contaminants around.

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murrkywaters wrote:It might help to turn off anything that could be circulating air. I haven't worked with plant TC but I've grown fungi and brewed beer. Most people do this sort of thing in the kitchen and most kitchens have vents and fans that blow contaminants around.

That's true. Anything moving air is an enemy to doing tissue culture without a flow hood. Ideally, the air is perfectly still and you move very, very slowly so as not to stir up any dust that contains mold spores and/or bacteria that could possibly land in the cultures.

So, what you're saying is that this isn't a "cut it off and stick it in some moss" kind of thing?

Panman wrote:So, what you're saying is that this isn't a "cut it off and stick it in some moss" kind of thing?

Haha, not quite! I sure wish it were. It would save me many hours of failures before finally figuring out something that works

A while back someone posted on Facebook wanting to know why Cephs are so expensive. After reading this discussion and seeing your latest video, it makes perfect sense. Tissue culture is long and demanding work, not without a few expenses.

Panman wrote:A while back someone posted on Facebook wanting to know why Cephs are so expensive. After reading this discussion and seeing your latest video, it makes perfect sense. Tissue culture is long and demanding work, not without a few expenses.

Yeah, Cephalotus are slow to propagate without TC and very slow to grow to any reasonable size coming out of TC -- not to mention that they are challening to establish in vivo (in soil) after propagating in vitro. Thus we only offer a very few Cephalotus each year even though I literally produce hundreds of them in TC.

Matt wrote: Yeah, Cephalotus are slow to propagate without TC and very slow to grow to any reasonable size coming out of TC -- not to mention that they are challening to establish in vivo (in soil) after propagating in vitro. Thus we only offer a very few Cephalotus each year even though I literally produce hundreds of them in TC.

This is gospel. I purchased a "small" cephalotus from a nursery over the summer. Small was an understatement. The entire clump was the size of a quarter, maybe. The pitchers were about 1/8-1/4 inch tall buried halfway in star moss lol. It took them a very long time to get going. I think I've owned the plant for 8 months and it just very recently put out its first adult pitcher (though I fertilize it a LOT). I was inspired to do the Sarracenia style fertilization you were talking about. I did that to my own EB clone, keeping the pitchers filled. I gave it a tough love approach and just kept it out in the open and let it work itself out with ambient humidity. After the plant acclimated, it began growing 13 pitchers simultaneously. It started with 5, its insane lol. I've lost a pitcher and half a lid, but overall I'm satisfied with the result. I was thinking of posting a pic once a couple of them open up. Seems to like the Mars Hydro, but the distance only has it coloring up so much.

Anyway, I can understand the tediousness of trying to TC those. It's impressive that you can do it at all, honestly lol. They're a tough plant to grow on its own. Outside of the Eden Black and that seed grown (I'm assuming it was seed grown), I've had limited success with the plants.

Apollyon wrote:I was inspired to do the Sarracenia style fertilization you were talking about. I did that to my own EB clone, keeping the pitchers filled. I gave it a tough love approach and just kept it out in the open and let it work itself out with ambient humidity. After the plant acclimated, it began growing 13 pitchers simultaneously. It started with 5, its insane lol. I've lost a pitcher and half a lid, but overall I'm satisfied with the result.

That's awesome! Thanks for the update. I think I burned most of the pitchers on my OG Black and Hummer's Giant and have backed off on the fertilizing a bit since then, but I should probably start at it again because they're all putting out lots of new growth now. It's super emerald green and very healthy looking too! And honestly, it could have been heat stress and acclimatization that killed most of the older pitchers. We had a very hot late summer and fall here and the greenhouse was regularly over 90F and often up near 100F. Cephs can handle that but they don't like it!

Apollyon wrote:I was thinking of posting a pic once a couple of them open up. Seems to like the Mars Hydro, but the distance only has it coloring up so much.

Please do post photos soon! And what distance do you have them growing from your Mars Hydro? I am planning on moving most, if not all, of our Cephalotus into the garage near the window and under the new Spider Farmer SF-2000 I recently acquired. It seems to be pretty equivalent to the Mars Hydro TSL 2000W, so I'd love to hear any guidance you have in terms of using that light. They should be much happier in that setting because the temperatures are much more mild than in the greenhouse.

I stopped by John Brittnacher's house again on Sunday afternoon. He grows the best collection of Cephalotus I've ever seen in person and he does it in very minimal space. His technique is pretty easy to mimic too. He grows in them in pots that are about 4 inches tall, uses a mix of peat and sand that is about 50/50, perhaps a bit more in favor of the sand, and he keeps a very, very low water level in the tray at all times (less than 1/2 inch -- looks like 1/4 inch). He thoroughly top-dresses the soil mix with sand, entirely covering the surface of the soil with it. This prevents mold and algae growth because it can't really take hold on nothing but dry sand on top of the pot. He never top waters them. His plants are beautiful too under the combination of LEDs and fluorescents he uses. I should have snapped a photo or two...

Matt wrote:And what distance do you have them growing from your Mars Hydro? I am planning on moving most, if not all, of our Cephalotus into the garage near the window and under the new Spider Farmer SF-2000 I recently acquired. It seems to be pretty equivalent to the Mars Hydro TSL 2000W, so I'd love to hear any guidance you have in terms of using that light. They should be much happier in that setting because the temperatures are much more mild than in the greenhouse.

I stopped by John Brittnacher's house again on Sunday afternoon. He grows the best collection of Cephalotus I've ever seen in person and he does it in very minimal space. His technique is pretty easy to mimic too. He grows in them in pots that are about 4 inches tall, uses a mix of peat and sand that is about 50/50, perhaps a bit more in favor of the sand, and he keeps a very, very low water level in the tray at all times (less than 1/2 inch -- looks like 1/4 inch). He thoroughly top-dresses the soil mix with sand, entirely covering the surface of the soil with it. This prevents mold and algae growth because it can't really take hold on nothing but dry sand on top of the pot. He never top waters them. His plants are beautiful too under the combination of LEDs and fluorescents he uses. I should have snapped a photo or two...

When it comes to the fertilizer, it may very well boil down to the factors of intensity(type) and light/temps with the plant. I find that Maxsea is a very gentle fertilizer with CPs. To the point where I get away with foliar fertilizing about every week with virtually all of them, cephs included. I know most people say they're too sensitive for that but with my own lighting, I've had no troubles. I use the Maxsea to fill the pitchers as well. I don't top it off every day, but every few days or so when I notice it's lower I inject some into it again. Perhaps it'd be worth trying out.

With my Mars Hydro, I have 2 600W lamps side by side, it turns out a lot of heat because of it. The room they're in is set to 70 degrees, but it gets to be about 83-85 degrees under the lamps at the shelf level so I keep the plants further away. About 15 inches or so. It works great for them and they do blush, but I have no doubt they'd color up better if they were closer to it. My seed grown and hummer's giants are much richer in color. Once the domes come off, I'll put the eden black with those under my yescoms. I keep those plants about 7 inches away because they don't project that kind of heat. The heatsink for the light fixtures are on the power cable. Interesting design but it works well for the cause. I don't have much of a drop off so I don't try to keep them in higher temps. If your temps in the new location stay static, I'd probably suggest measuring the temps at the level you want and work from there. I decided on 85 being safe enough with 70 nights.

That's awesome, I read his articles all the time. He appears to have grown every species I've ever been interested in. That's awesome that you know the guy. From the way you describe it, he grows his similar to how I grow mine. I keep mine in slightly taller pots, about 3.5wide by 5 inches tall. I use a mix of 60/40 sand/peat with a little perlite for drainage. I also decided to dress it with sand to deter moss growth, that star moss was trying to overtake the pots. I use that mix for a lot of plants needing drainage. Cephs, Byblis, Indica Drosera, Petios, some Sarracenia, etc. The perlite is more of a safety thing for me because I usually do try to get away with tray watering and get a bit reckless. With the cephs, I keep about a half inch or less but with the humidity dome, I don't water them frequently. Strangely enough, the eden black is in pure sphagnum moss; it's identical to the OP. That one I top water. I didn't repot it because it had just been divided and replanted so I worked with it. True story though, it feels like I've had better experience with the moss and open air/top watering over peat with humidity in a tray. It's inspired me to take the domes off my cephs and let them work themselves out. The HGs would be ok but I'm worried about this tiny juvenile plant that grows with it. It's a phil mann x hg cross. I had recently repotted that one so I let it stay in high humidity to reestablish itself.

You should've taken a photo man lol, I'm sure they were awesome. I'm wondering what kind of temps he runs and if he uses the fluroescents to enhance the "Spectrum"; if that is making any difference. I've taken to using a gooseneck LED I clamped to my fluorescent grow rack to project onto seedlings to try to boost them a bit since the distance is pretty far for little sprouts. I don't know if it made a difference though lol, first time grower with those species. I noticed byblis loves fluorescent lighting though, compared to my mars hydro. There is an outlier though, I have a Rorida under LED that is comically large compared to its siblings and is already beginning to flower. The species under T5s are much larger and were germinated later.

I finally got my new led grow light up. My drosera are already getting a lot more dew. The eden black hasn't darkened drastically, but the light has only been up for two days.

Berrybob wrote:I finally got my new led grow light up. My drosera are already getting a lot more dew. The eden black hasn't darkened drastically, but the light has only been up for two days.

I noticed it takes a while and the old pitchers aren't coloring up as well as ones grown in my conditions. Mine isn't exactly colored up all the way I think in my case the temperatures are just too warm. Considering where it's at, I'm thinking of getting a division and placing it outside next year in the winter where it's more habitable for them and see where it lands. Hope the light works well for you man