FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

hollyhock wrote:Time to dispel all myths about vfts in cold climates. I uncovered my plants today.and to tell you the truth I have seen way worse looking " pampered" plants.. I will continue to leave my Venus flytraps outside year round. I am in Michigan and we had below freezing and worse this winter and I think these plants look great.
I will continue to update this thread to show the progress when they come out of dormancy. If you look back I covered them up November 29th 2016

You have not "Dispelled all myths" about leaving the plants outside. It looks like you put quite a bit of effort to protect and pamper the plants. I want to emphasize that simply leaving them outside is not a proper solution in an arctic climate, and the spreading of this information likely leads to disappointment in newer growers, in fact when I started out it was a huge discouraging factor.

Venus flytraps, among the temperate carnivores are actually finicky and can be challenging to keep healthy long-term. Simply put, if they are left outside they will die in many colder climates. If you guys like, I can attest to this with many instances and even pull out pictures of dead flytraps, (do you really want to see that ?) even during mild winters in Utah. Michigan is a great example of a climate which would be way too cold to leave these plants outside unprotected.

I think that the opposite of your statement is true: it is a common myth that flytraps will survive even the coldest climates. They will not. This is a complicated and conditional subject: freezing and thawing, drying through sublimation, and unseasonably warm periods followed by deep freezes all contribute to a flytraps ability to survive winter. Even their relative placement in your yard, snowfall, etc are all factors. I think the carnivorous community has gone to great lengths to oversimplify this matter, and I believe many newer growers (as is my personal past experience) will be discouraged to find their pet flytraps not return the following year.

I have found this to be true year after year.

I just followed the advice of several fellow growers in Michigan that successfully keep their plants outside year round..
I mulched the plants and covered them with burlap. I hardly think that's pampered, just practical... I think insulation from extreme weather conditions is absolutely necessary. I don't need to see photos of dead plants....
When I said "pampered" I was referring to people that go to great lengths to put their Flytraps in terrariums
( because that's the perfect environment for them) or any of the other crazy ways they decide to deny their plants any dormancy period or sufficient lighting...
As I have always expressed in these posts people can decide for themselves how they want to treat or mistreat their plants... Because I have seen plenty of the latter..... And my experience is just that.....my experience...

I have to admit, I am very impressed with VFT surviving how cold it gets in Michigan. Even with the step measured, prolonged temperatures we get falling into single digits will test any insulation.

Great job Holly

bvalente wrote:I have to admit, I am very impressed with VFT surviving how cold it gets in Michigan. Even with the step measured, prolonged temperatures we get falling into single digits will test any insulation.

Great job Holly

I also want to clarify that these are all mature adult typical type Venus flytraps and Akai Ryu. I am not an expert on plant hardiness, but I believe that a "typical" would probably be a hardier plant than say a Korean melody shark cultivar.

Thank you for clarifying everything. I agree that protection during extreme weather is a necessity.

hollyhock wrote:

bvalente wrote:I have to admit, I am very impressed with VFT surviving how cold it gets in Michigan. Even with the step measured, prolonged temperatures we get falling into single digits will test any insulation.

Great job Holly

I also want to clarify that these are all mature adult typical type Venus flytraps and Akai Ryu. I am not an expert on plant hardiness, but I believe that a "typical" would probably be a hardier plant than say a Korean melody shark cultivar.

My whole collection was outdoors for the winter in zone 6a and I don't notice any difference between the hardiness of my Korean Melody Shark to a DCXL or Typical. I really figured some would struggle but after re potting everything they all look great.

David F wrote:

hollyhock wrote:Time to dispel all myths about vfts in cold climates. I uncovered my plants today.and to tell you the truth I have seen way worse looking " pampered" plants.. I will continue to leave my Venus flytraps outside year round. I am in Michigan and we had below freezing and worse this winter and I think these plants look great.
I will continue to update this thread to show the progress when they come out of dormancy. If you look back I covered them up November 29th 2016

You have not "Dispelled all myths" about leaving the plants outside. It looks like you put quite a bit of effort to protect and pamper the plants. I want to emphasize that simply leaving them outside is not a proper solution in an arctic climate, and the spreading of this information likely leads to disappointment in newer growers, in fact when I started out it was a huge discouraging factor.

Venus flytraps, among the temperate carnivores are actually finicky and can be challenging to keep healthy long-term. Simply put, if they are left outside they will die in many colder climates. If you guys like, I can attest to this with many instances and even pull out pictures of dead flytraps, (do you really want to see that ?) even during mild winters in Utah. Michigan is a great example of a climate which would be way too cold to leave these plants outside unprotected.

I think that the opposite of your statement is true: it is a common myth that flytraps will survive even the coldest climates. They will not. This is a complicated and conditional subject: freezing and thawing, drying through sublimation, and unseasonably warm periods followed by deep freezes all contribute to a flytraps ability to survive winter. Even their relative placement in your yard, snowfall, etc are all factors. I think the carnivorous community has gone to great lengths to oversimplify this matter, and I believe many newer growers (as is my personal past experience) will be discouraged to find their pet flytraps not return the following year.

I have found this to be true year after year.

The majority of people who enter this hobby by purchasing a typical VFT from the local grocery store are discourage after they kill the plant with hard water, think they can plant it in their backyard next to an apple tree or think they are tropical plants that can't go outdoors in the cold!
I struggled with growing my first dormancy trying to shuttle plants outdoors to get light during the day and then into a in heated garage during the night when it would get far too cold to leave the plants unprotected outdoors. This was a terrible plan and I was pretty much ready to leave the hobby after a month of shuttling plants around day by day all because I didn't understand they CAN SURVIVE sub freezing temps with MINIMAL care. Basically, saying Holly is doing a disservice to the hobby by promoting this topic is absolutely silly. The more knowledge a grower has the more options they have and the higher their success rate will be in making it through dormancy.

Hollys setup is very basic and far from being "pampered". The main things you need to protect from in a zone 7 and below for outdoor dormancy are...
Extreme temps - if temps drop below freezing, mulch with hay/pine needles/ leaves etc. if temps drop below 20f consider covering the mulch with plastic, burlap or both. The bigger the container the better!

Wind - winter winds will freeze your plants and cause severe frost burn, if below freezing temps and high winds, cover your mulched plants with plastic sheeting, tarp, extra pot, anything that will cut the wind but remember to remove the plastic after the wind has subsided for air circulation.

Water - keep plants moist but not soaking, also keep them well drained if outdoors during the rainy season as they can flood very quickly in containers.

Mold - check your plants as often as possible, remove mulch and check for mold, treat with sulfer based fingicide or neem oil if needed.

Probably the most important aspect of a successful dormancy is having a successful summer growing season. If you are not giving your plants enough sunlight during the growing season and plants are in poor health, they will absolutely struggle to survive the winter. A healthy plant should have no issues with just some basic care.

Okay, I think we've all retracted from the point I originally was looking for. I'm not being silly or arbitrary by pointing out that certain language in posts can mislead new growers, and I disclaim that I am not questioning or condemning anyone's ideas or experiences. A lot of younger folks use this site, and their perceptions of what you are posting about dormancy is probably not what you intended. I speak by natural experience and by observation.

A lot of people seem to have this bias about dormancy, for instance Branmuffin's experience has given him a strong bias to say that plants should be left outside with "MINIMAL care". I'm also not claiming that this isn't true for the majority of climates and areas, but making blanket statements and generalizations are not going to help newer growers, which is who I feel this forum's follower base is.

I've been a member of this forum for a long time, and knowledge against the grain, whether it's correct or not is met very poorly. I remember someone who was brave and posted something about "Don't cut the whole VFT flowers stalk off". They were a longtime grower who simply pinched the apical flowering bud of the stalk off, and the flytraps were much healthier and had more energy during the season. Despite his long running success, many felt compelled to argue or question him without actually evaluating what he was saying. Which is often what I see in posts.

Keep in mind that as I came into this and other forums, being so young, I was led to believe many things that were either wrong or false under my conditions. Therefore, I think it's fair to say that generalizations can harm newer/younger growers.

I only ask that you more deeply consider your audience and what their perceptions are of your posts, and to not "trash" on someone who has an emotionally/evidence driven argument. I hope that we can remain civil in our discussions about flytrap dormancy.