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Discuss water requirements, "soil" (growing media) and suitable planting containers

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By Steve_D
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Joined:  Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:06 pm
#110398
I have been using coir in growing mediums for more than 2.5 years. Last year I decided to do a side-by-side experiment. In April, 2010, I potted 6 medium-sized B52 Venus Flytraps with similar-sized bulbs, by first separating them into two groups of three, then planting each group of three into a 10-inch diameter pot. Both pots are identical polyurethane foam planters, and the Venus Flytraps have grown together in exactly the same conditions and with the same care regimen for the last 14 months.

The photo below was taken today, July 2, 2011. The 3 Flytraps in the pot on the left are growing in a traditional 50% sphagnum peat moss medium with sand and perlite; the 3 Flytraps on the right are in a pot that contains a coir medium, 12 parts carefully desalinated coir (coconut husk pith) to 5 parts silica sand, by volume.

Sphagnum peat moss and coir growing mediums comparison, 14 months of growth

Image

To anyone who would like to try coir, remember several things--
  • "Coir" is a name that's thrown around a lot and means different things to different people, including the chopped fibers of a coconut husk (which is not what I use) and the pith that surrounds the fibers in the husk and which is discarded as a waste product (now a commercial byproduct) of the processing of coconut husks to extract the fiber for various uses including marine rope. This pith, sometimes called "coir dust," is what I use.
  • Regardless of anything the manufacturer claims, the coir must be thoroughly desalinated by repeated soaking and draining for 8-12 hours soaking at a time, 8-10 times or more until the TDS of the drained water is consistently under 60-70 ppm, preferably around 50ppm or lower (which is about equivalent to what sphagnum peat moss contributes in soluble material to the water in the growing medium).
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By stitz25b
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#110408
jht-union wrote:Que experimento tan interesante y ver como varios tipos de tierra afectan el crecimiento de la atrapamoscas y otras plantas. :)

Thanks!
i would like to dedicate this comment to google translate
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By Steve_D
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#110410
jht-union wrote:Que experimento tan interesante y ver como varios tipos de tierra afectan el crecimiento de la atrapamoscas y otras plantas.
for stitz25b--> "What an interesting experiment, to see how various types of soil affect the growth of Venus Flytraps and other plants." :)
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By jht-union
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Joined:  Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:43 pm
#110417
Steve_D wrote:jht-union wrote:
Que experimento tan interesante y ver como varios tipos de tierra afectan el crecimiento de la atrapamoscas y otras plantas.
for stitz25b--> "What an interesting experiment, to see how various typse of soil affect the growth of Venus Flytraps and other plants."
Yup! :)

Steve, i think you're the only person i write in spanish! :)

(edit:): nice looking B52's! :)
By RogerMcAllen
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Joined:  Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:29 pm
#110452
stitz25b wrote:why is there such a difference?
I am also wondering what the difference is. Is it possible that the coir is acting as a slow release fertilizer?

This document put out by a coir supplier suggests that coir is much more nutrient rich than spahgnum.
http://www.agrococo.com/Bethke/NUTRIENT ... ROCOIR.pdf


A quick googling came up with:
"The coconut is teaming with naturally occurring growth hormones and other bio-stimulants that are inherent to the survival of the species, which fortunately for growers may be found in the fibers surrounding the “seed” which may be processed for use as a growing medium."
http://www.progressive-growth.com/article-coco-coir.php
By Daniel_G
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Joined:  Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:27 pm
#110474
jht-union wrote:Que experimento tan interesante y ver como varios tipos de tierra afectan el crecimiento de la atrapamoscas y otras plantas. :)

Thanks!
El unico parte no conozco es "crecimiento" y "atrapamoscas". Pero es bien conocer estos palabras, especialmente atrapamoscas. (Quite strange when you disect the word, to find trap, and fly in it :lol:)

As for you Steve, you've put sphagnum growers like me to shame! Could you try an experiment with Moorland gold too? If you have it in the US
By jht-union
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#110503
RogerMcAllen wrote:I am also wondering what the difference is. Is it possible that the coir is acting as a slow release fertilizer?

This document put out by a coir supplier suggests that coir is much more nutrient rich than spahgnum.
http://www.agrococo.com/Bethke/NUTRIENT ... ROCOIR.pdf


A quick googling came up with:
"The coconut is teaming with naturally occurring growth hormones and other bio-stimulants that are inherent to the survival of the species, which fortunately for growers may be found in the fibers surrounding the “seed” which may be processed for use as a growing medium."
http://www.progressive-growth.com/article-coco-coir.php
So what this is saying would be that VFT's would benefit from a weak fertilizer in the soil, an interesting expirement can be done, getting a weak fertilizer with some of the components that coco coir has, watering the soil and leave it for a day or several days and wait for the result or a year, or sort of like the coffee experiment with nepenthes. It would be interesting to see what happens, would they grow vigoriously like above, or the solids kill the plant?
Has anyone ever tried this?
By fuddmain
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Joined:  Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:44 pm
#110548
From reading the PDF it seems that coir is not that much different from peat in terms of nitrogen and phosphorus, but much higher in potassium. I recall reading somewhere that the soil VFTs grow in naturally is also high in potassium while being low in nitrogen and phosphorus.

I wonder if potassium is the limiting factor for VFTs grown in cultivation? It would nice to know the nutrient breakdown of the typical VFT prey. If these insects are low in potassium that would give some indication that providing extra potassium could be beneficial.
By dantt99
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#110586
Matt wrote:provided it's properly prepared
It takes so long I'm not going to attempt it :P
By dmagnan
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#110591
Well, it makes doing the environmentally friendly thing a lot easier when it works as well or better than the convention! Thanks for posting this!

If I can ask, where and for how much did you get coir? And is there a trick to making sure of getting the right "coir"? It's not the fibers but the matrix surrounding the fibers?
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By Steve_D
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#110597
dmagnan wrote:If I can ask, where and for how much did you get coir? And is there a trick to making sure of getting the right "coir"? It's not the fibers but the matrix surrounding the fibers?
Yes, it's the matrix, the pith, that surrounds the fibers inside the coconut husk. This pith has amazing retentiveness for both water and air: it absorbs loads of water and traps a lot of air. When mixed with silica sand it makes a medium with a very nice texture for Venus Flytraps and some other carnivorous plants (Cephalotus seems to love it too).

One brand I like is ProCoir. It is cheap and can be bought in two sizes, a "brick" (which is about the size of a brick) :) and a "bale" which is 12x12x5.5 inches. Both are compressed 5:1, which means that they expand to about 5 times their original compressed size. Here are some sources for ProCoir:

http://www.composterconnection.com/site/order.html
http://www.hydroponics.net/c/313
http://www.worldofhydroponics.com/pro-c ... -2085.html

If you get some ProCoir brand coir (coconut husk pith or "dust"), you will become familiar with what it looks and feels like, and then you'll know whether other material marketed as coir is the same stuff. This type of coir is often found in compressed, dry blocks of various sizes, but there are also bags of it sold that are less compressed, more loose and crumbly, which resemble the weight and texture and packaging of some types of sphagnum peat moss.

If you (or anyone) decides to try coir, be sure to take the advice about soaking it repeatedly, draining and discarding the water, to get rid of almost all the initial soluble material (often from the original processing with sea water). After experimenting with different ratios of coir to silica sand (I prefer silica sand to perlite), the mix I like best is 12 parts (by volume) of dry, fluffy, desalinated coir two 5 parts silica sand. Makes a great mix. :D
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