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SAND

Postby Bud » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:58 am

Thinking about adding sand to the soil mix. Below is the description for Quickrete commercial grade sand found at the local bigbox store. Is this the sand that you guys are using? And what size grade, they have course medium & fine.
Thanks Much!

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
QUIKRETE® Commercial grade sands are
narrowly graded clean dry silica sands. They
are available in three grades, fine (No. 1961),
medium (No. 1962) and coarse (No. 1963).
Composition and Materials: QUIKRETE®
Commercial grade sand is high quality silica
sand.
Packaging: Available in 50 lb (22.7 Kg) and
100 lb (45.4 Kg) bags.
Color: white to light tan.
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Re: SAND

Postby Ava_G » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:09 am

Silica sand is good. I'd assume the coarse stuff would work better than the fine sand, since the point of mixing it into the peat moss is to provide aeration and drainage. But I'm still learning about all this myself, so hopefully someone with more expierence will post their thoughts, too. :)
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Re: SAND

Postby Adam » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:24 am

One nursery told me they use coarse sand as their VFTs grow better in it. I hence bought some premixed VFT media from them.
Is your VFT experiencing these conditions?

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Re: SAND

Postby Steve_D » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:31 pm

I prefer coarse sand myself, but that's just a personal preference. I like the consistency and aeration of the growing mediumwith plenty of coarse sand in it.

That Quikrete brand sand you found looks great, since the information about it specifically says "silica sand." Silica sand, unlike river or beach sand or so called "play sand" (for children's sandboxes) is composed almost entirely of grains of silicon dioxide, common quartz.

The reason silica sand is better than other types of sand is because those other types of sand contain grains of many types of rock that are water soluble to some extent (unlike silica or silicon dioxide which is not water soluble), and which therefore add minerals, mineral salts and increase the "total dissolved solids" content of the water in the medium the plants are growing in. This of course can harm or kill Venus Flytraps and other carnivorous plants that are adapted to soil conditions where the total dissolved solids are extremely low.

This Quikrete silica sand is interesting. It might be cheaper or more uniform ("finely graded") than the Oglebay blasting sand I use now (which is also silica sand, mined from a large deposit, bagged and marketed for sandblasting use).

Thanks for the information, Bud! :D
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Re: SAND

Postby Bud » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:39 am

Ya Steve, I was looking all over the place for some kind of Silca sand and could not find any. I then went down the building supplies isle at Home depot with the Cement and stuff, and seen a bag ripped open whith what looked like pure cane sugar, and there it was. It was cheap enough, however, only problem is, I believe they only carried the medium which appears pretty fine to me- I think a bit courser would be better.
I am planning Bog garden, and may be putting it in this weekend. If I wanted to go courser and wanted an economical way, would would Oglebay blasting sand you mentioned be the way to go? And where would I have my best chances of finding some? It appears it's more difficult than I thought to find silica sand. I am planning on about a 140 gal garden and although I have perlite, however it's costly and I have read that silica sand is better than perlite for a garden. Steve or anybody

Thanks Much

Bud
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Re: SAND

Postby Steve_D » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:41 pm

Bud, I found the Oglebay blasting sand (silica sand for sandblasting use) at a local combined lumberyard, building materials, hardware, home & garden store. Sandblasting is used for various purposes, to strip paint, auto body work, cleaning metal objects, frosting glass for signs or decorative use, etc. So if you can't find blasting sand at a local building materials or home and garden store, you perhaps could ask some tradesmen (people who work at an auto body shop or sign shop) where they get their sandblasting sand, if they use it.

If I couldn't find coarse silica sand, I would use the fine and just use a greater percentage of it in the growing mix. For example, if I were to create a mix for a bog garden and didn't want to use perlite but only sphagnum peat moss and sand, I might make a mix of 50% peat moss and 50% coarse sand, or 40% peat moss and 60% fine sand--something like that. I would experiment with the ratios and see how the moist mix looks and crumbles in my hands before deciding on exactly what proportion to use.

I'll bet you can find some coarser silica sand somewhere. I've heard it is used in swimming pool filters, so you may be able to find some at a pool service place. And other FlytrapCare.com members may have other suggestions. Good luck-- :)
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Re: SAND

Postby Bud » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:41 am

Thanks Steve & all;

While I was at the local Menards I found that they had “Fairmont handy sand” 100% washed silica sand, which was about the coarseness as table sugar perhaps a bit courser, I don’t think it’s much different that the Quickreet sand I mentioned. I needed to mix some soil up fast to get some Sarr rhizomes planted in a temporary mini bog until I get the big one in. When mixing the sand, it appears the ratio that “appeared” right to me was 10 parts of dry packed peat to about 7 parts sand; this appeared plenty sandy. This sand was just under 5 bucks for 50 lbs. Don’t know how much I’ll need for a 145 gal Bog, it be interesting to see.

Thanks again

Bud
May your CP’s Divide and prosper
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Re: SAND

Postby Steve_D » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:22 pm

That's great, Bud. That Fairmont "handy sand" silica sand costs only half as much as the silica sand I currently use. I may try to find another source of silica sand locally. :) Best wishes; I hope the bog grows great and that you post photos of it when you can. Glad you found a source for silica sand. :P
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Re: SAND

Postby BigEasy » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:13 pm

Bud wrote:Thinking about adding sand to the soil mix. Below is the description for Quickrete commercial grade sand found at the local bigbox store. Is this the sand that you guys are using? And what size grade, they have course medium & fine.
Thanks Much!

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
QUIKRETE® Commercial grade sands are
narrowly graded clean dry silica sands. They
are available in three grades, fine (No. 1961),
medium (No. 1962) and coarse (No. 1963).
Composition and Materials: QUIKRETE®
Commercial grade sand is high quality silica
sand.
Packaging: Available in 50 lb (22.7 Kg) and
100 lb (45.4 Kg) bags.
Color: white to light tan.


Hey guys,

I am new to the forums and growing CPs, so hi everyone. I read a lot of the forums and this post isthe only
one that I can find that references Quikrete sand. So I was wondering if any of you have personally dealt with
Quikrete All-Purpose Sand. ( http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/SandAllPurpose.asp ) I already
have it, so I would like to use it instead of going to heaven knows where to find a package that specifically
states pure silica sand(plus spending extra money). I have been to Lowe's and home depot and found pool filter
sand and all purpose sand but nothing has really come close to stating it specifically like the Commercial Grade
sand Bud found. This may be silica sand but I would rather ask some experts about before I start putting my
newly acquired VFT's at risk. (A squirrel in my backyard already mangled one of my baby VFT to death :x :evil: .
So I am being over protective and not feeling very experimental. :( )

I am cheap and picky which is, of course, not a good combination. But, if I really have to,
I will go do what i must to get something that specifically says silica sand.

Any knowledge or advice you could impart on this sand would be greatly appreciated.Thanks.
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Re: SAND

Postby grant » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:19 am

Thanks Steve. and Bud, for starting the discussion. I just really dont like the look of perlite. Ill still use a little. But I like the look of Steve's medium. And obviously his plants are healthy, so... :D :D

So, I will go hunting for Silica Sand soon :)
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Re: SAND

Postby BigEasy » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:36 pm

Hey Guys,

Ok I did some really deep google digging and found these 3 references to Quikrete
sand buried in all the dialog. He is talking about his sundew but looks like it has
relevance to VFTs.

I dont think that any Quikrete products would be good for CPs other than maybe
its pool filter sand.(http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/SandPoolFilter.asp)

I think I am going to dump the all-purpose sand i have in the yard and start afresh
with something like Quikrete pool filter sand or the commerial grade. If I can find any .... :( .

Website I found the quote from: http://www.omnisterra.com/botany/cp/list/cp.2000.all

###################
From: "Sundew Sundew" <sundew@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:36:38 -0500
Subject: Quikcrete Sand OK?

Just purchased some of Quikcrete's all-purpose fine sand for my precious
Drosera. Anyone know if this is OK or not?

http://www.quikrete.com/products/sands.htm

Matt

###################
From: "Sundew Sundew" <sundew@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:18:39 -0500
Subject: Quikrete Sand

Just got off the phone with my local Quikrete office and have some great
news!
The sand which I bought at the local Home Depot - commercial grade, fine -
appears to be a great choice for use with CP. Here's what I was told about
the Quikrete sand available in my area:

Commercial Grade: fine, medium, coarse - this is silica sand from Port
Elizabeth, NJ. (Where is this, anyway? Not next to my favorite toxic waste
dumps, I hope!) ;)

Play sand is "Long Island beach sand" = Silica sand.

All purpose = 1/2 LI. 1/2 mid Hudson sand (mined near Poughkeepsie, NY) -
contains lots of minerals, including Limestone.

Seems like the all purpose sand would be a BAD choice but the others should
be fine. The play sand is a mix of fine sand and course sand so you get
more variety.

Hope this helps, I'll probably experiment a bit with this fine CG sand
before I put my favorite Drosera in it but it sounds like this'll be ok.

Matt

###################
From: "Mellard, David" <dam7@cdc.gov>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:25:57 -0500
Subject: RE: Quikrete Sand

>Play sand is "Long Island beach sand" = Silica sand.

Beach sand doesn't sound like it would be good either since it's likely to
contains ocean salts. Of course, Home Depot play sand is what I've been
using for years with good results for Drosera. With the respect to salt
levels, however, not all Drosera are likely to be created equal. Some may
tolerate higher salt levels than others.

David
Atlanta
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Re: SAND

Postby Steve_D » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:08 pm

I just looked at Quikrete's current sand products. They offer about 10 different sands. Most of them appear to be river or beach sand, not good for carnivorous plants because they contain too many grains of water soluble rock, whereas pure silica (quartz, silicon dioxide) is not soluble and is completely neutral and inert, perfect for carnivorous plants.

However, Quickrete makes two sand products that I would probably buy a test bag of, and then examine it with a loupe or other magnifier, and then mix up a test batch of growing medium with it (and sphagnum peat moss) and plant a few plants in it to see how they do. The products that look promising from Quickrete are:

QUIKRETE SILICA SANDS

Commercial Grade Sands in fine, medium and coarse (I would use the coarse):
http://quikrete.com/ProductLines/SandCommercialGrade.asp

And, as previously mentioned, the Pool Filter Sand:
http://quikrete.com/ProductLines/SandPoolFilter.asp

I'll probably look for them locally to see if they're cheaper than the silica sand I now buy (which is Oglebay "Blasting Sand" #2, for commercial and decorative sandblasting applications).

Best wishes,
Steve
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Re: SAND

Postby grant » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:44 pm

What do you think, Steve? The only place in town that sounded the closest to what we are talking about was this stuff, which only came in 100 pound bags. But luckily they had one open that was about 3/4 full. I was surprised how cheap it was. With the 3/4 discount, it was only $14. It also was the coarsest stuff they had. How does it look compared to what you use Steve? The only label warned of inhalation. But no chemicals or anything else.
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Re: SAND

Postby Matt » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:17 pm

Nice find Grant! That's a lot of sand for $14...can I borrow some ;)
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Re: SAND

Postby afh928 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:21 pm

where did you find that stuff? I am having a hard time finding silica sand around here (Atlanta area) and im hoping you found it at one of the big stores?
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