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Discussions about fluorescent, LED and other types of grow lighting for Venus Flytraps and other plants

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By katya_dog1
Posts:  2412
Joined:  Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:45 pm
#210404
I am growing vft seedlings, and I plan to bring them in for the winter and skip dormancy. I already know what color temperature I need, and I just need to know how many lumens per square foot I need. I am growing 80 seeds, I do not know how many will sprout, but I assume I will not need more than one, perhaps one and a half square feet of space, at least for their first year. I am planning on using CFLs in a setup sort of like this http://www.tomorrowsgarden.net/content/ ... ext=node/5 so that I do not have to spend much money.
By Fang
Posts:  208
Joined:  Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:35 pm
#210418
My assumption is that it wouldn't be much different than the sprouted flytrap; maybe less intense since they are young. So prob between 1000-1500 I would say. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
By Carnilvr79
Posts:  56
Joined:  Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:40 pm
#210438
Hello katya_dog1, let me first commend you on growing VFT from seeds. It can be a truly rewarding experience. Educating yourself about the plant you are growing is important, and it seems like you have done that. However, it seems you might need a little help in understanding light and the requirements a plant needs. As we know, sunlight is "full-spectrum" and is very bright! We have all heard to not stare at the sun, however, inevitably we have all more than likely experienced a glance of the sun and hurt our eyes. So when we read about CFL and fluorescent lights being "full-spectrum" we think about the sun, then we think about how the sun is able to grow plants. Bear with me here...however, a light labeled "full-spectrum" does not mean it will be able to supply a plant with the necessary nourishment it needs to grow properly - let alone at what stage that plant is growing. Let me explain, when a plant is first producing leaves, take the VFT, those first leaves are non-carnivorous. During these first few stages of life, the plant requires more of the ultra-violet spectrum to grow naturally and vigorously. Then as the plant matures, it's photosynthesis requirements change, rather, shift more towards the infrared part of the spectrum. I hope you are hanging in there...which brings me to the specific spectrum of light plants absorb for photosynthesis. This is called the PAR spectrum of light. It is short for Photosynthetic Active Radiation. It is the spectrum of light from about 420 to 710. Although the sunshine is bright, there are parts of the spectrum of light our eyes do not use in order to see, or rather, can't see - for instance Ultraviolet and Infrared. We have to use special camera's and machines to be able to see this spectrum of the light. Now, in exactly the same way our eyes can't see/use parts of the spectrum of light, so do plants! So when we go and purchase a light from a store that says full spectrum - this is saying it is a full spectrum for our eyes - not plants. Which brings me to Lumens vs. PAR meters. I have both of them. I have a basic Lumens meter, and the higher end Apogee PAR meter. A lumens meter measures the full spectrum light intensity. A PAR meter will measure the intensity of the spectrum a plant can use. In other words, by using a Lumens meter and seeing you are getting "good" readings, might not necessarily mean those readings are good for a plant but are good for our eyes. So, I hope you are still with me...

I have attached a table I made for my research on the Nepenthes Villosa
Read more: http://pitcherplants.proboards.com/thre ... z3B9aTkSW1

Now, I presently have and am using two 5000K 85W Hi-Pro SATCO Spiral CFLs in use and I have LED grow lights. I also have an Apogee PAR meter which measures only the spectrum of light plants use - one of the better ones on the market. Around $3-400. (I have mixed feelings about it because it is intended for aquariums, not terrestrial-air photon-using plants, so the readings are more than likely much higher than this meter is reading because the probe is quite "directional" in where it is able to receive photons for a reading. Anyhoo...) Where was I? Oh yes, so when I measure about 4 inches away from my CFL's as stated above, I get a reading of about 450 PAR and decreasing VERY quickly as you get just a couple inches further away! I would highly recommend placing your plants not further than 6" away! When you look below at the table, you can see where you are going to have to place your plants relative to the light. Which brings up the issue of the immense amount of heat these lights put out - they will cook your plants more than likely that close unless you have some very good ventilation. Not to mention Humidity problems, and soil drying out problems. Which brings me to the use of LED grow lights....AHHH STONE HIM! HEy back off man! I recently bought a 600W 7 Band grow light that at 4 inches away produces more PAR than the SUN....BOOM that one, huh!? - I have done my research on which type and which spectrum of LEDs etc because there are a lot of crap lights out there built with only the intention of making a profit. However, there is a site called htgsupply.com that paid people with college degrees to research and develop and LED grow light specific towards what plants need to grow. I bought the 7-Band 240 Watt LED light from them and it pumps out an enormous amount of PAR light and creates very little heat and uses much less electricity than even the CFLs. Can you see how that might be beneficial for growing Ultra Highland Nepenthes? The plants I am growing under it are quite rare and expensive and they are thriving - even getting a little sun burnt if I am not careful. Which comes to the use of your CFL. I do not think it is a bad choice, as I know there are much worse out there that need water cooling systems and are much more complicated than plugging in and the light turns and your plants grow. However, I would encourage you to one day invest in one of the LED grow-lights out there. Do your own research and pick one. Because I assure you, from my own personal experience with my plants dying from a LACK of light when the light they were getting was so bright I needed glasses - Yes I just said something that would not make sense unless you read the previous article above, that is to say the old Lumens vs PAR discussion, I highly prefer LED grow lights now after much trial and error.

Sincerely,
-Kyle
Attachments:
Villosa PAR vs Lux.jpg
Villosa PAR vs Lux.jpg (17.16 KiB) Viewed 5712 times
Carnilvr79, Carnilvr79 liked this
By katya_dog1
Posts:  2412
Joined:  Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:45 pm
#210478
alright, thank you carnilvr79, yes, I had read a little about how plants use a different spectrum, what I did not know was that it changes from seedling to plant. Very helpful, and, as a matter of fact, I am saving up for this http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Horticultu ... rticulture I know it is not the best light I can get, but it is good value for the money from what I have read on flytrapforums. I am only growing seedlings inside, so I do not need a large light. I plan to start seedlings every year so that I have a continuous supply of seedlings to experiment with. so, I will start out with the 6500 k cfls, and then once I have saved up enough I will buy the led. again, thank you for the information, it was very helpful. you might want to post that on a sticky thread so that everybody could learn from it and chip in with their own opinions.
By Carnilvr79
Posts:  56
Joined:  Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:40 pm
#210491
OOOOoo...you have the same idea as I do! Starting a batch every year...for ExpErImenTatIOn! BWAH hahah...ahem...so yeah! Hey, so what is a sticky thread?
By katya_dog1
Posts:  2412
Joined:  Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:45 pm
#210500
I am not very sure, and I think you have to ask a moderator to make it a sticky, but from what I understand, it is a thread that that everyone can post on, so for instance, Steve_d has made one on fluorescent lighting so everyone can post links to a good deal or something like that. What you have is a fantastic piece of information that would be useful to everyone, especially those using cfls and are looking to upgrade. So if I were you, I would google 'how to make a sticky thread on flytrapcare.com.' Someone has probably already posted something on how to do it. I think what happens is that w/ a sticky thread it always appears at the top of whatever discussion topic you put it on, e.g. Artificial lighting. Just a guess, but I think it would have to be more complete to be a sticky. it is just a helpful bit of information that everyone would benefit from, so if you could write up some more stuff it could probably be made into a sticky.
By katya_dog1
Posts:  2412
Joined:  Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:45 pm
#210528
*update* I got a couple of tw2o foot T5 fixtures for free, so I will be using those until I buy an LED
By katya_dog1
Posts:  2412
Joined:  Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:45 pm
#210580
whoa whoa whoa. T5 fixtures. Not T5HO fixtures. They are single bulb tubes, but were still 20 dollars each when they where bought, which was a few weeks ago. The person who had them decided to just use LEDs for their bathroom, so they did not need them. I still got a good deal though. :)
By katya_dog1
Posts:  2412
Joined:  Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:45 pm
#210603
I once found a site online that sold T5HO fixtures for like 25 dollars for one 1 bulb 2 foot fixture. It was fantastic. Bulbs were very cheap too, and it sold a bunch of grow medium. :cry: :cry: I can't believe that I lost it. :x
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