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Discussions about anything related to Venus Flytraps, cultivars and named clones

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By Smooter80
Posts:  1038
Joined:  Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:33 pm
#288740
I haven't done the research myself but I would think a company like CC would have. If they illegal to sell across state lines, I personally wouldn't risk my collection and possible legal consequences. I would like to know exactly what CITIES says but even AHPIS and the USDA has trouble figuring that out. I see other CP retailers like NE and PP selling N rajah and clearly those are a monetary transaction sold across state lines.
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By Matt
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Posts:  22523
Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
#288752
Details are here:
https://www.fws.gov/endangered/permits/faq.html
The ESA makes it unlawful to import or export; deliver, receive, carry, transport, or ship in interstate or foreign commerce in the course of a commercial activity; sell or offer for sale in interstate or foreign commerce; take (includes harm, harass, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect any wildlife within the United States); take on the high seas; possess, ship, deliver, carry, transport, sell, or receive unlawfully taken wildlife; remove and reduce to possession any plant from areas under Federal jurisdiction; maliciously damage or destroy an endangered plant on areas under Federal jurisdiction; and remove, cut, dig up, or damage or destroy any endangered plant in knowing violation of any State law or regulation or in the course of a violation of a State criminal trespass law.* These prohibitions apply to live or dead animals or plants, their progeny (seeds in the case of plants), and parts or products derived from them.
And Venus flytraps are already on the CITES list, meaning they can't be shipped overseas without CITES paperwork. The only exception to this rule is for plants in sterile culture, which is why we only offer sterile cultures (and no plants in soil) at FlytrapStore International so that we don't have to obtain CITES paperwork.
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By Matt
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Posts:  22523
Joined:  Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:28 pm
#288753
Smooter80 wrote:I see other CP retailers like NE and PP selling N rajah
Nepenthes rajah is listed on the ICUN endangered species list, which has different laws and regulations than the FWS ESA (which I posted a link to above).

Source here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepenthes_rajah
Due to its localised distribution, N. rajah is classified as an endangered species by the IUCN and listed on CITES Appendix I.
By BillyKidd
Posts:  33
Joined:  Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:55 pm
#288809
Sounds like nothing more than more red-tape bureaucracy to force people to have to BUY, spend money, on another federal regulation. The more money involved, the easier it is to get one. Another tax money scheme from the feds.
By Nick
Posts:  513
Joined:  Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:08 am
#289014
Big-Jack wrote:The Feds can have my flytraps when they pry them from my cold, dead hands.
The Feds have never cared and will never care about your legally-obtained personal VFT collection unless they decide it is another devil-plant such as cannabis. They do currently care if you take your VFTs from protected areas, but not enough to deter some poachers. I would like more progress on this front.

The Feds currently do not care but will care if you sell or buy VFTs in the future if they are placed on the endangered species list. They still will likely not do anything about your personal collection as your plants may be exempt from new laws. Granted, you may not want to show it off on social media and the like for roughly forever afterwards. Giving your personal VFTs to another person for zero compensation may not cause you issue, but it would have to be very hush-hush in order to be safe. Selling them will immediately get in you in hot water. Transporting them across state/national lines (even for purely personal reasons) will very likely get you in hot water.

Good intentions with lots of poor unintended circumstances.
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By Wahter
Posts:  198
Joined:  Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:05 am
#289085
Nick wrote:
The Feds have never cared and will never care about your legally-obtained personal VFT collection unless they decide it is another devil-plant such as cannabis. They do currently care if you take your VFTs from protected areas, but not enough to deter some poachers. I would like more progress on this front.
They are sentencing some poachers when caught now.

A poacher who stole 970 venus flytraps in N.C. is sentenced to prison
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... cfb94c5346

It's not easy to catch the poachers though. Sometimes the locations where the VFTs live are at least 400 meters or so from a road. I've been to some sites and there haven't been any rangers driving by for long periods of time, so it wouldn't be difficult for a poacher to go there, dig up 30 plants or so, and then head for another site. Some sites are off trails which are closed by a locked gate - I've been told that the poachers ride a bike around the gates, dig up the plants, load them into a bag, and then ride back around the gate.

The other big thing affecting the plants of course is loss of environment - I've been to some sites where they are building houses or roads and the plants are just on the edge of the road (and will probably get dug up when the road is paved) or on an empty lot (which to me means there probably were plants on the lots before the houses were built).

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