FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

And...just so I don't have to retype my response that lived in the other thread:

95slvrZ28 wrote:I believe vermiculite is bad for CPs. I know some have mixed in glass beads with some degree of success. I have seen small glass beads before, but I've never thought of using them. I still think they're going to be quite a bit bigger than individual grains of sand. Broken tempered glass sounds like a lot of cuts when mixing potting medium. I think the same thing would go for plastic BB's (airsoft pellets are what came to my mind) as the small round glass beads. I'm not entirely sure if the consistency of the sand makes much of a difference though. Next potting season I'm planning on changing from what I'm using right now to something new next time I repot, maytbe we'll come up with something good.(I'm afraid what I use now, medium sized pea gravel, will eventually leach minerals, so I need a substitute for aeration)

I have excess airsoft BB's so I may give those a try. Luckily the non-bio BB's are cheapest and you could just buy .12g cheap BB's.

I have personal experience with tempered glass...something from that experience makes me not want to put it into something I mix by hand..

I can't imagine VFTs any healthier than mine have been for several years now, and I normally grow them in straight sphagnum peat moss, in 10 to 14 inch deep white pots, standing in an inch or two of water. It's simple, relatively inexpensive, fairly lightweight (especially compared to sand), and incredibly low-maintenance. I rarely ever have to water them when they're outside, and only when the pan goes dry (maybe every week or two) when they’re inside. Even after the pan is empty, it takes quite a while for them to actually dry out. And best of all, they apparently love it! If it weren't for the ecological issues with peat moss, I'd probably never try anything else. I am, however, currently gathering several other media to experiment with and hopefully find something else that's workable. I'll be posting my results for everyone.

I'll probably stick with the deep pots standing in water, whatever the media. I noticed the other day that the ones in deep pots are coming out of dormancy quicker and already have way more open traps than the ones in shallow pots. They're clones from the same original plant, transplanted on the same day, growing in peat moss from the same bag, wintered in the same location, and moved outside on the same day, yet there's an obvious difference between them. The soil in the shallow pots was significantly wetter, so I drained the pan under them. Hopefully once they dry out a little they'll catch up. Of course, now I’ll have to water them more often. I’m selling them at a church rummage sale later in the spring. After that, any that are left will be transplanted into deep pots ASAP.

heathenpriest wrote:I can't imagine VFTs any healthier than mine have been for several years now, and I normally grow them in straight sphagnum peat moss, in 10 to 14 inch deep white pots, standing in an inch or two of water. It's simple, relatively inexpensive, fairly lightweight (especially compared to sand), and incredibly low-maintenance.

That sounds great. I think that the primary danger of using pure sphagnum peat moss is the tendency for it to make a very dense partially anaerobic medium if it is kept too wet, which is a common beginner's mistake. However, some people have kept Venus Flytraps in soggy conditions for long times with no problems. In your case, the tall containers and relatively low water table may keep the upper portion of the medium dryer, or perhaps being outside in the wind may help in that regard. Is that a good guess, or not?

The larger pots with more medium probably help to buffer against drying out too quickly, and the white color of the pots probably helps to keep the sides and medium in the root zone from overheating in direct sunlight. Is that why you chose white, or was there another reason?

Your medium and technique certainly sounds easy and effective.

SquidBait wrote:All this to say that since my area is devoid of an easy source of Silica sand, I was wondering what others might be using if they can't find any Silica sand either. I am operating under a premise that the purpose of Silica sand is used because it keeps the peat from clumping and helps air to get into the soil. If that isn't right, please let me know.

Thanks so much for rewriting this excellent and very interesting post after I accidentally deleted it in your original discussion thread--

To continue the discussion--
There is one other benefit of silica sand that I know of. The silica sand displaces a portion of the sphagnum peat moss with non moisture retentive material, which means that the medium will dry faster (because it can hold less water to begin with) than 100% sphagnum moss media which tends to stay very wet for a longer time. This faster drying helps to get air back in the medium more quickly.

However, if a person waters too frequently and never allows the medium to dry substantially, it will defeat the benefit mentioned above, which is intended to prevent anaerobic conditions (lack of air) which can promote destructive and sometimes fatal bacterial rot of the roots and bulb.

SquidBait wrote:I started brainstorming this a little, looking for a viable substitute for Silica sand. By viable, I mean serves the same purpose and just as importantly, easily accessible for almost everybody. Inexpensive would be a bonus!

So my original ideas to start this off were the following:

1) Vermiculite
2) Glass beads - maybe from a craft store
3) broken tempered glass.
4) small plastic BB's (Like AirSoft BB's)

The plastic BB's sound very interesting!

My original response to this subject was much longer, but I'm not sure I can recreate all of it right now. However, I can think of two other things to add to that list of possible medium ingredients that would occupy space, not retain water, keep the sphagnum looser and spongier and add little or no nutrients or other soluble ingredients to the soil--

• Finely chopped styrofoam from such things as a dirt-cheap styrofoam ice chest or shape-conforming packing material or packing "peanuts."
• Orchid bark, which is just evergreen bark of some kind (pine or fir usually). The small size orchid bark would probably work great. Cheap, large bags can be bought of bark mulch that can be made into smallish bark pieces if one has access to a chipper/shredder. If I were going to make a mix of orchid bark and sphagnum peat moss, I might start with a 60% small bark pieces by volume to 40% dry, fluffy milled sphagnum peat moss. By "small bark pieces," I mean pieces that are a little larger than 1/8 to almost 1/2 inch in diameter (.3 - 1.5 centimeters) in average diameter.

Regarding the chopped styrofoam, there are also those tiny styrofoam beads that are used to make larger styrofoam things under heat. Those little beads can be bought separately, as a material called aerolite. Here's one source--

http://repotme.com/orchid-potting-media/Aerolite.html

That's all I can think of right now. I'm very anxious to read everyone else's comments. My own experiment this year is with coir (coconut husk pith) to make a sphagnum-free mix. All the experiments being done by FlytrapCare.com Forum members are very interesting.

-Steve

Steve_D wrote:I think that the primary danger of using pure sphagnum peat moss is the tendency for it to make a very dense partially anaerobic medium if it is kept too wet, which is a common beginner's mistake. However, some people have kept Venus Flytraps in soggy conditions for long times with no problems. In your case, the tall containers and relatively low water table may keep the upper portion of the medium dryer, or perhaps being outside in the wind may help in that regard. Is that a good guess, or not?

The larger pots with more medium probably help to buffer against drying out too quickly, and the white color of the pots probably helps to keep the sides and medium in the root zone from overheating in direct sunlight. Is that why you chose white, or was there another reason?

Yes, I chose the white pots to prevent overheating in the full sun. And the larger mass of soil definitely seems to prolong the time before it dries out. I suspect it also stabilizes the temperature and provides insulation from freezing and overheating. Who knows? The gradual breakdown of the peat moss may even be generating a little heat in the winter. And yes, the tall pots standing in water do seem to keep the upper few inches constantly moist but not saturated. (I use the same set-up all winter, by the way.) The wind does make a difference, too, because I had some kind of slime developing in one of my shallow pots while they were inside, but now that they've been outside for a couple of weeks, it's apparently gone.

It’s interesting that you mentioned anaerobic activity. I have a theory about that, but so far nobody else seems to have an opinion about it: I’ve never had any trouble with mold or other fungi in my deep pots, but I did before I started using them, and when I did, I had to apply a sulfur fungicide. I may occasionally get some mold growing on a dead leaf or trap now, or on some foreign plant matter that blew into the pot, but not in the soil. It could be that I’ve just been lucky, but I suspect that something more is going on. Whenever I’ve repotted, I’ve noticed a pretty strong sulfur smell coming from the soil deep in the pots, where it’s wet all the time. Do you think it's possible that the sulfur (or whatever it is that smells like it) is being generated by anaerobic bacteria, and is also acting as a natural fungicide?

heathenpriest wrote:Yes, I chose the white pots to prevent overheating in the full sun. And the larger mass of soil definitely seems to prolong the time before it dries out. I suspect it also stabilizes the temperature and provides insulation from freezing and overheating. ... And yes, the tall pots standing in water do seem to keep the upper few inches constantly moist but not saturated. I use the same set-up all winter, by the way.) The wind does make a difference, too, because I had some kind of slime developing in one of my shallow pots while they were inside, but now that they've been outside for a couple of weeks, it's apparently gone.

This is all great information and personal growing experience to know, and thank you very much for sharing it.

heathenpriest wrote:Whenever I’ve repotted, I’ve noticed a pretty strong sulfur smell coming from the soil deep in the pots, where it’s wet all the time. Do you think it's possible that the sulfur (or whatever it is that smells like it) is being generated by anaerobic bacteria, and is also acting as a natural fungicide?

Well, my own thoughts are that sphagnum peat moss itself, which contributes tannic acid to the growing medium, inhibits bacterial and possibly fungal growth as well up to a point. Think of all the peat bogs in England and Europe in which human bodies are found that are hundreds of years old with the skin and organs intact and with very little decomposition.

However, if a fungal or bacterial infection does manage to get started and begins to feed on the roots or other non sphagnum organic matter in the mix, then I believe it has the potential to spread fairly rapidly in that non-sphagnum matter, which just happens to include the plant(s) one is trying to grow, darn it!

Those are just my own thoughts. You know, coir (coconut husk pith) is also somehat acidic (not quite as much as sphagnum) and is reported to naturally inhibit microbial growth as well.

Thanks for sharing your growing techniques and experience. Very interesting!

Steve_D wrote: Well, my own thoughts are that sphagnum peat moss itself, which contributes tannic acid to the growing medium, inhibits bacterial and possibly fungal growth as well up to a point.

I agree with that. I use LFS as the base layer in my terrarium, never had fungal/bacterial problems inside

Hmm, that's odd. I use mulched LFS for my growing medium and I just recently had to spray a few of my plants for (what I assumed to be) mold...It was a grey and almost fuzzy looking...stuff...that was only growing in the shaded areas of my pots.

95slvrZ28 wrote:Hmm, that's odd. I use mulched LFS for my growing medium and I just recently had to spray a few of my plants for (what I assumed to be) mold...It was a grey and almost fuzzy looking...stuff...that was only growing in the shaded areas of my pots.

Sphagnum peat moss seems to inhibit microbial growth only up to a point, not completely. And anything growing above the level of the moss would be subject to infection without any of the antibiotic properties of the peat affecting it.

However, that said, I wonder exactly why those human bodies found in the peat bogs of Europe still look much like they looked hundreds of years ago when they died. Maybe to the extent that they are saturated with a strong enough solution of tannic acid they don't decompose (past a certain initial point)?

At any rate, it seems like any time there are conditions of total water saturation of a medium, bacterial rot of the roots and anything under the surface is made more likely. And a lack of air movement above ground (such as is possible in a terrarium) can cause a concentration of fungal spores that make fungal infection more likely, it seems to me.

But I'm not a microbiologist, and I don't know for sure.

Living LFS is the best. The milled, dried one has poorer bacteriostatic "abilities"

Hmm, interesting. Maybe I'll see if I can revive any of my dried LFS to get a nice top-dressing for my pots.

95slvrZ28 wrote:Hmm, interesting. Maybe I'll see if I can revive any of my dried LFS to get a nice top-dressing for my pots.

It would be quicker and faster to buy some. I was using some dried LFS over the winter to do some leaf pullings. After about 2 months, I had one little sprig start up.

But I'm a poor college student And I'm not too anxious to get live LFS, so the wait won't bother me too much. Nonetheless, we digress, back on topic of alternative potting media!

Some of my plants look like they may be getting mineral burn, so I may be attempting the airsoft BB method earlier than I expected. I'll watch my plants closely for the next few weeks and see if they start to look better. It's still pretty early in the season, but all I've seen out of both of my VFTs thus far are small shock traps or no trap developing at all, just the mid-rib. Interestingly enough my Drosera are doing great in the same potting medium *shrug*

I am trying a new (for me) cultivation method for some new VFTs I recently acquired from Cook's. I have potted up two each of Big Mouth and Big Vigorous in four separate three inch net cups (used in hydroponics and for planting emergent pond plants). The cups were lined on the sides and bottom with LFS, then filled with 50/50 peat/perlite. After the plants were situated in their respective cups, I mulched the tops of the plants with finely cut LFS. This is all intended to contain the soil mix. The plants are now recovering indoors under an HID lamp (they were still dormant when I received them), and are slowly beginning to resume normal growth.

Once the plants are healthy and attractive again, I will place the cups into four appropriately sized holes in the lid of a three gallon bucket. The soil will be even in height with the bucket lid, the net cups will hang down in the bucket. The inside of the bucket and bottom of the lid are painted flat black to dissallow light entry. Finally, a series of aquarium airstones line the bottom of the bucket and connect to an external fishtank air pump. Water (distilled and pH adjusted to 3.5-4.0)is added to within a few inches of the bottoms of the net cups. When the airpump is activated, scads of bubbles rise to the surface of the water and spritz the bottoms of the cups, moistening the LFS and wicking water to the rest of the root mass. I strongly suspect that the roots will grow through the net cups and dangle over or grow into the water reservoir, where the environment of 100 % humidity, high oxygen content, suitable pH and total darkness should cause the roots to grow bigger and healthier than normal. At the least, I think this method, if successful, will provide a very low-maintainance method of keeping out

door plant watered (has the neighbors thirsty cat ever drained you water tray on a hot day?) My real hope is that lack of dissolved ozygen in the rootzone of most traditionally potted plants will prove to be one of the limiting factors to VFT digestion, allowing more, bigger meals to be more quickly turned into more, bigger, better VFTs. This method of cultivation would also provide an ideal model for experimentation with root fertilization, as a nutrient sprayed directly on exposed roots would show a very quick response, and bathing the roots in pure water would hasten the plants recovery, if need
be.

Just some thoughts. I'll post pics and updates soon:)

What an elaborate and very interesting experiment, Leaf Talon! Please keep everyone updated about this experiment as it continues, OK? And thank you so much for telling everyone about this. Very interesting--