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By Shadowtski
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Posts:  4720
Joined:  Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:19 am
#294950
Byblis liniflora seeds have the bad habit of germinating only when they feel like it.

I have had B. liniflora seeds sprout in as little as one month. I have also had them germinate after six months and longer. It would be nice to find a shortcut to reliable quick germination.

Some growers use a bleach treatment and claim germination within a week or less, one grower had 24 hour germination.

I started with about 30 Byblis liniflora seeds from Autumn of 2016 from my plants. The seeds were stored dry in a refrigerator.

Here's the procedure I used. It's based on internet browsing and Fishman's tips.

1: Measure 30 milliliters of household bleach, pour it in a 2 cup glass vessel.
2: Measure 270 milliliters of room temperature water, add it to the measured bleach.
3: Mix the bleach and water together. This is a 10% bleach solution.
4: Set a timer for 5 minutes and hit START.
5: Dump your Byblis liniflora seeds into the bleach solution and start agitating with a stainless whisk.
6: After 5 minutes, pour out the seeds and bleach into a very fine mesh Tea strainer.
7: Rinse 1 minute under running water, then rinse for 60 minutes in clean tap water. Change water every 20 minutes. Agitate the water to thoroughly rinse the seeds.
8: Plant your seeds in your favorite Byblis media, anything from 1:1 Perlite:Peat, up to 3:1 Perlite:Peat. (Sand may be substituted for Perlite). I used 1:1 because I have a 5 gallon bucket of it mixed up already. I suggest using a pot 6 inches or larger, the bigger the pot, the bigger the plant.
9: Cover pot with clear plastic, put it in a warm bright place, and wait.

The seeds were Black when they go into the bleach solution. After 5 minutes, they were anywhere between White and Grey. Leaving them in past 5 minutes can break the seed down to nothing I suspect.

I'll post updates if and when anything happens.

Good growing,
Mike
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By erikHIplants
Posts:  406
Joined:  Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:03 am
#294951
Thanks for this, I tried to germinate byblis seeds by scarification, GA3 soak, and a combination of both. It has been 5 months with no results. I'll try your method out next.
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By nimbulan
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Joined:  Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:03 pm
#294972
I suppose I'm a bit confused about bleach concentrations. I thought it was supposed to indicate sodium hypochlorite concentration, since storebought bleach comes in several different strengths. I was recommended last year to use 2.5% (about 1:3 of high strength bleach I thought) for 30 minutes and that was way way too long. I was working with perennial seeds though which may not have as tough of seed coats.
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By Shadowtski
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Joined:  Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:19 am
#294976
nimbulan wrote:I suppose I'm a bit confused about bleach concentrations. I thought it was supposed to indicate sodium hypochlorite concentration, since storebought bleach comes in several different strengths. I was recommended last year to use 2.5% (about 1:3 of high strength bleach I thought) for 30 minutes and that was way way too long. I was working with perennial seeds though which may not have as tough of seed coats.
I came up with my numbers from Googling this subject. The other people who tried this technique usually used a solution made up of 10% household bleach and 90% water.

I originally wondered the same thing as you, considering the concentration of the active ingredient as the percentage. But those Internet postings were made by everyday CP hobbyists like me, people with only fuzzy knowledge of chemistry. Their idea of a solution percentage was volume of Ingredient A over Total Volume, I think. The solution I made seemed to do the job. It removed the seedcoat dye without destroying the seed (I hope).

EDIT: I used 6% concentration Generic Store Brand bleach for this project. 30ml contains 1.8ml of active ingredient, Sodium hypochlorite. This yields a concentration of .6% when 30ml is diluted with 270ml water. I should have stated that the working concentration is .6%, not 10%. Sorry bout that, Chemistry was my worst subject way back when.


Good growing,
Mike
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By nimbulan
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#294981
I think high strength bleach is around 7.5% hypochlorite. Any more than that and the solution will not remain stable and the hypochlorite rapidly breaks down. I think you've got the right idea about dilution though - the lower concentrations are much preferred. Interestingly, even using a much stronger concentration than you are, half an hour barely had an effect on some tuberous sundew seeds and did absolutely nothing to some D. regia seeds (I was sterilizing them after recovering from some bad peat.) My Byblis seeds were toast after 10 minutes.

I'm curious, what other methods have you tried in the past? Even just environmental changes?
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By Shadowtski
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Joined:  Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:19 am
#294982
I'm curious, what other methods have you tried in the past? Even just environmental changes?

Most of the time, I just toss them on top of a media mix and wait. I've tried them at various times during the year. Winter sowing in a cool house either doesn't germinate or takes a long time. I've tried them outside in the Summer and they still take their own sweet natured time. There does seem to be just a tiny correlation between warmer temperatures and quicker germination.

I tried water germination and they never sprouted at all for me.

From purchase or harvest time to planting time, I store them in a refrigerator.

Good growing,
Mike
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By nimbulan
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Joined:  Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:03 pm
#294983
Yeah I've always heard they germinate faster in warmer temperatures - I was under the impression that being exposed to 80F or so would reliably result in germination in about a month. I'll have to do some experiments myself in the future.
By Fishman
Posts:  867
Joined:  Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:16 pm
#294988
The ratio Mike is using is correct. Personally I use regular strength Clorox brand bleach. When i tried someones advice to let let them stir around in the solution for 5 to 7 minutes like they suggested, it fried the seeds. They turned to mush. What did the trick for me was using a 10% solution. Stirring it continuously not on a timer, but on a more visual watch. While stirring, I could see a very thin blackish colored trail behind the seeds that i was stirring. Wait until they go greyish then pull them out before they go full pale. Rinse thoroughly and sow immediately on the soil surface. This has seemingly worked very well for me. One thing im unaware of though, yet I have great interest in is what Nimbulan mentions. What role does the temp play into successful germination? Could be a factor or light intensity or both. I've sowed some in a pot in one of my growrooms that stays around 68f-74f year round that germinated pretty quick without any treatment at all, maybe 2 weeks. This pot sits under a huge Mars pro 600w led getting some very intense light. In the kitchen, I also have a pot full of Byblis that loses seeds everywhere before I can collect them. They fall down into the soil all of the time, and some have been laying there for nearly a year and have done nothing. In this particular pot, the temp stays about 74F day and night it goes to about 68F. This sits on an aquarium shelf under an enormous canopy under a pair of 6500k cfl. Now back to the grow room: the more intense light seems to be what the key is for me. Some growers may have different experiences than I do, but both of my rooms having untreated seeds, sharing the same temps but have different lighting setups in a huge way made it a bit easier for me to decide for myself what seem to work best for Byblis in my conditions. That's something that prior to today havent thought about until i saw this thread this morning. Thanks for giving me something to wonder about!
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By Shadowtski
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Joined:  Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:19 am
#294989
I have the pot sitting upstairs in my living room. The indoor temperature is in the upper 70s, going into the 80s soon. We have 90 degree temps coming to Milwaukee this weekend. Let's see if the warmer temps make a difference.

Good growing,
Mike
By Fishman
Posts:  867
Joined:  Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:16 pm
#294990
Shadowtski wrote:I have the pot sitting upstairs in my living room. The indoor temperature is in the upper 70s, going into the 80s soon. We have 90 degree temps coming to Milwaukee this weekend. Let's see if the warmer temps make a difference.

Good growing,
Mike
Wow thats warmer than it is in my part of Texas today! I bet that warmer temp will help alot for those! I haven't looked in the seedbank to see how many B.liniflora is left, but its safe to experiment away and when more is needed let me know. I have plenty of seeds and it doesn't look like Im going to run out anytime soon.
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By Shadowtski
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Joined:  Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:19 am
#295002
nimbulan wrote:That is interesting that you've had quicker germination under more intense light. Have you guys tried doing it outdoors?
I've had B. liniflora sprout outside but I never knew if that was seed from a month ago from the adult plant in the pot, because it could also have been seed I planted in that same pot 6 months ago.

You got me thinking now. I just threw nine seeds in a pot with virgin media. Now let's see what happens. I still have 100-200 seeds left to play with.

There's 6 packages of B. liniflora seed in stock in the seedbank right now. Plus I made up about 10 more packages, held in reserve. So if anyone else with 3 months membership wants to play around with this species, there is seed available to experiment with.

That's one of the neat things about this hobby. A normal person like me can experiment and maybe find a technique to share with other growers.

Good growing,
Mike
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By Fishman
Posts:  867
Joined:  Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:16 pm
#295004
I havent tried outdoors myself but I do know they can tolerate a wide range, especially the warmer temps. Im curious as to what yall find. Id do it here myself, but I have several different projects Im working on as well. If we run out of seed, let me know :)

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